Elderly person had money taken

[bitchstewie]

Jinba Ittai said:

honestly, if you knew me you’d realise how hilarious that notion would be! I’d struggle to fight my way out of a paper bag.

I’ll just say the actions of this particular person almost left me a widower.

Well obviously I'm extremely sorry to hear that.

Perhaps it's the way you worded it but just don't do anything stupid.

[carinaman]

I am sure there are many similar cases. The trusted neighbour was ordered by the Court to repay the £200:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ramsgate-dad-...

[98elise]

BlackWidow13 said:

tighnamara said:

blueST said:

Because on phoning the bank and Age UK she was told it was her fault, nothing to be done. My Wife’s going to ring the cops and see what they say

That is pretty worrying if both the bank and age U.K. have actually said it is “her fault”

The bank is really saying “it’s not our fault because you gave him your PIN (so don’t expect us to reimburse you)”.

Age Concern are probably saying “if you give someone your PIN more fool you” whilst overlooking that the instruction included anything to the effect of “and do feel free to help yourself to as much of my money as you fancy”.

It’s still theft (criminal) and fraud (civil).

Agreed. I can see why the bank and age concern think its the individuals fault (from a security perspective) but it's still a crime.

[98elise]

Bigends said:

Theft of £1000 for Police to record plus fraudulent use of the card
Get in touch with them and get the matter investigated.
The neighbour was given consent to use the card to get shopping and no more not treat the card as her own in order to access the cash, however Police may try and bat this off as a civil matter between the cardholder and neighbour..

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 10th September 00:34

This would be my concern about the police. I was scammed out of a car many many years ago. The police just said it was a civil matter (ie the scammer just owed me the money).

Edited by 98elise on Sunday 10th September 11:06

[Rh14n]

98elise said:

Bigends said:

Theft of £1000 for Police to record plus fraudulent use of the card
Get in touch with them and get the matter investigated.
The neighbour was given consent to use the card to get shopping and no more not treat the card as her own in order to access the cash, however Police may try and bat this off as a civil matter between the cardholder and neighbour..

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 10th September 00:34

This would be my concern about the police. I was scammed out of a car many many years ago. The police just said it was a civil matter (ie the scammer just owned me the money).

With all due respect, that's a totally different scenario. Trust me, the circumstances described by the OP falls within the definition of theft. I dealt with a few similar cases. Getting a conviction where the offender abused the trust of an elderly, vulnerable victim was
highly satisfying.

[Hammer67]

98elise said:

BlackWidow13 said:

tighnamara said:

blueST said:

Because on phoning the bank and Age UK she was told it was her fault, nothing to be done. My Wife’s going to ring the cops and see what they say

That is pretty worrying if both the bank and age U.K. have actually said it is “her fault”

The bank is really saying “it’s not our fault because you gave him your PIN (so don’t expect us to reimburse you)”.

Age Concern are probably saying “if you give someone your PIN more fool you” whilst overlooking that the instruction included anything to the effect of “and do feel free to help yourself to as much of my money as you fancy”.

It’s still theft (criminal) and fraud (civil).

Agreed. I can see why the bank and age concern think its the individuals fault (from a security perspective) but it's still a crime.

I have the bank card and PIN belonging to my cricket club which I use to buy bar stock / mower spares / fuel / bog rolls etc etc. If I helped myself to a grand I`d fully expect the Police to knock on my door.

[blueST]

I spoke to the police today, very sympathetic, they’ve taken the details and given me a log number. They’ve put it down as a theft and said someone will be in touch.

[bitchstewie]

Sounds promising fingers crossed.

[Rh14n]

blueST said:

I spoke to the police today, very sympathetic, they’ve taken the details and given me a log number. They’ve put it down as a theft and said someone will be in touch.

Absolutely right. Keep us updated Blue.

[hunt123]

Absolutely despicable the sort of person who do things like this

[PorkInsider]

hunt123 said:

Absolutely despicable the sort of person who do things like this

This.

Absolutely blood boiling that people prey on the vulnerable like this.

Hope you get somewhere with it, OP.

[Knock_knock]

The problem is here is that while it's a crime and yes the police should investigate, there's not much chance of a conviction and even less of recovery...

Question: "Did you buy shopping for yourself and withdrawn £1000 for yourself, without her permission?".

Answer: "No. I took her bank card, she gave me the PIN. The agreement was that I'd do her shopping and she insisted a do a bit for myself for my troubles. She also asked me to withdraw £1000 as she likes to have cash at home, which I did. I gave her the shopping and the £1000. I've no idea what she did with it after that, but she's clearly forgotten. She's not been the same since that stroke."

This covers the known and provable facts, and isn't an unreasonable or unbelievable scenario.

Realistically how do you prove dishonesty with that account? I can't see there's any other evidence to be gathered, so it's one word against the other.

Safeguarding really does need to addressed to prevent the same thing or similar things happening again.

[singlecoil]

All the tea leaf has to say is that she did indeed give permission. OP has no chance of getting the money back for her.

[paintman]

Hammer67 said:

I have the bank card and PIN belonging to my cricket club which I use to buy bar stock / mower spares / fuel / bog rolls etc etc. If I helped myself to a grand I`d fully expect the Police to knock on my door.

Or the club would show you a new meaning of 'Up stumps' & 'Whipping your bails off'.

[Bigends]

Knock_knock said:

The problem is here is that while it's a crime and yes the police should investigate, there's not much chance of a conviction and even less of recovery...

Question: "Did you buy shopping for yourself and withdrawn £1000 for yourself, without her permission?".

Answer: "No. I took her bank card, she gave me the PIN. The agreement was that I'd do her shopping and she insisted a do a bit for myself for my troubles. She also asked me to withdraw £1000 as she likes to have cash at home, which I did. I gave her the shopping and the £1000. I've no idea what she did with it after that, but she's clearly forgotten. She's not been the same since that stroke."

This covers the known and provable facts, and isn't an unreasonable or unbelievable scenario.

Realistically how do you prove dishonesty with that account? I can't see there's any other evidence to be gathered, so it's one word against the other.

Safeguarding really does need to addressed to prevent the same thing or similar things happening again.

He's already said he'd pay the money back and then ceased all contact with the lady. Police wont know what he's going to say until he's in and under interview - no point guessing at the moment

[InitialDave]

The way the OP worded it, they bought some stuff for themselves and withdrew cash, for a total of £1000 worth.

So the bank account should show purchases at a time and place that can be correlated to them doing so.

I don’t think it's just "they withdrew a grand in cash".

[blueST]

InitialDave said:

The way the OP worded it, they bought some stuff for themselves and withdrew cash, for a total of £1000 worth.

So the bank account should show purchases at a time and place that can be correlated to them doing so.

I don’t think it's just "they withdrew a grand in cash".

As I understand it, it was multiple transactions, purchases and cash totalling about £1k.

I hope people will understand now the police are looking into things I’m not going to give a blow by blow commentary. I will update when we are further down the line.

[BertBert]

Makes sense, would be nice to know if they actually do take it seriously or just fob off when possible to comment

[Knock_knock]

Bigends said:

He's already said he'd pay the money back and then ceased all contact with the lady. Police wont know what he's going to say until he's in and under interview - no point guessing at the moment

Good luck introducing that as evidence tho, it's still he said/she said. Accepting that you don't know what will be said in i/v until it's said, by all accounts from friends still in a position to actually know, almost no-one says anything anymore unless they're actually innocent (or mad!). For this you'd probably get a prepared statement and "no comment" as it reduces risk.

[Bigends]

Knock_knock said:

Bigends said:

He's already said he'd pay the money back and then ceased all contact with the lady. Police wont know what he's going to say until he's in and under interview - no point guessing at the moment

Good luck introducing that as evidence tho, it's still he said/she said. Accepting that you don't know what will be said in i/v until it's said, by all accounts from friends still in a position to actually know, almost no-one says anything anymore unless they're actually innocent (or mad!). For this you'd probably get a prepared statement and "no comment" as it reduces risk.

Fair enough, dont even bother speaking to him if we already know what he's going to say.