Ever been had Mr plod?
Discussion
bryan35 said:
I use my phone whilst driving occasionally, HOWEVER............
only on the motorway, and only when there's nothing about, which is usually as I drive home on an evening.
Never anywhere else. Bascially when I'm absolutely sure that there is next to no risk.
same here. I once used it without a handsfree kit when I was sitting totally stationary in a traffic jam where the traffic was not going to move for at least half an hour (accident up ahead). The nob in the car behend decided to wave and flash his lights and motion "phone" and then "w*nker".... its this type of intolorant wierdo that really pisses me off!!
To all those that are defending the use of a phone whilst driving, give up! You'll never convince the narrow-minded numpties that some people do have the ability to do two things at once safely.
To all those that suggest using a hands-free kit to be legal, well what if I choose to talk on a hands-free kit whilst scratching my ear with forefinger and chewing the nail on my little finger? Not actually breaking any laws there am I? So how many small children will I kill with my wreckless behaviour?! Oh, hang on, I could be driving with undue care and attention or even wrecklessly, so why not let a copper decide that LIKE THEY ALWAYS USED TO???!!!??
Question: If I am apparently driving safely, within the speed limit and talking using a hand-free kit (all totally legal so far), am I necessarily breaking the law if I hold a child's pretend mobile phone to my ear? Or what I I hold a banana?! Or scratch my ear? NO F
KING DIFFERENT TO USING A MOBILE IS IT????!!!!!!
May sound ridiculous, but then so does the law in this respect...
Muppets
To all those that suggest using a hands-free kit to be legal, well what if I choose to talk on a hands-free kit whilst scratching my ear with forefinger and chewing the nail on my little finger? Not actually breaking any laws there am I? So how many small children will I kill with my wreckless behaviour?! Oh, hang on, I could be driving with undue care and attention or even wrecklessly, so why not let a copper decide that LIKE THEY ALWAYS USED TO???!!!??
Question: If I am apparently driving safely, within the speed limit and talking using a hand-free kit (all totally legal so far), am I necessarily breaking the law if I hold a child's pretend mobile phone to my ear? Or what I I hold a banana?! Or scratch my ear? NO F
KING DIFFERENT TO USING A MOBILE IS IT????!!!!!! May sound ridiculous, but then so does the law in this respect...
Muppets
wiggy001 said:
To all those that are defending the use of a phone whilst driving, give up! You'll never convince the narrow-minded numpties that some people do have the ability to do two things at once safely.
To all those that suggest using a hands-free kit to be legal, well what if I choose to talk on a hands-free kit whilst scratching my ear with forefinger and chewing the nail on my little finger? Not actually breaking any laws there am I? So how many small children will I kill with my wreckless behaviour?! Oh, hang on, I could be driving with undue care and attention or even wrecklessly, so why not let a copper decide that LIKE THEY ALWAYS USED TO???!!!??
Question: If I am apparently driving safely, within the speed limit and talking using a hand-free kit (all totally legal so far), am I necessarily breaking the law if I hold a child's pretend mobile phone to my ear? Or what I I hold a banana?! Or scratch my ear? NO F
May sound ridiculous, but then so does the law in this respect...
Muppets
wiggy001 said:
Question: If I am apparently driving safely, within the speed limit and talking using a hand-free kit (all totally legal so far), am I necessarily breaking the law if I hold a child's pretend mobile phone to my ear? Or what I I hold a banana?! Or scratch my ear? NO F
May sound ridiculous, but then so does the law in this respect...
Muppets
Muppets indeed
You don't just clamp a phone to your ear though do you, you have to push buttons to dial etc. and that removes your vision from the road.
Do you think that just possibly the perception that mobile use it dangerous comes from the rather common sight of cars veering around randomly with the driver gassing away on the phone? FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to talk and drive?
MR2Mike said:
Question: If I am apparently driving safely, within the speed limit and talking using a hand-free kit (all totally legal so far), am I necessarily breaking the law if I hold a child's pretend mobile phone to my ear? Or what I I hold a banana?! Or scratch my ear? NO F
May sound ridiculous, but then so does the law in this respect...
Muppets
Muppets indeed
You don't just clamp a phone to your ear though do you, you have to push buttons to dial etc. and that removes your vision from the road.
Do you think that just possibly the perception that mobile use it dangerous comes from the rather common sight of cars veering around randomly with the driver gassing away on the phone? FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to talk and drive?
SOME people veering round on the phone - I challenge you, follow me for a long journey and try to tell when I am talking on the phone or not - you wont be able to. Because I am able to talk and drive at the same time.
I also have voice activated dialling which requires pressing a button on my earpiece. Doesnt really obstruct my view of the road does it...
Why shouldnt I talk and drive being that I am able to speak and do other things at the same time? Its legal and its safe - or is that overruled because you cant do it and disagree with it for that reason?!
MR2Mike said:
You don't just clamp a phone to your ear though do you, you have to push buttons to dial etc. and that
removes your vision from the road.
To answer a call I simply press any button on my mobile without any need to look at it... almost exactly the same as I have to do (legally) on a handsfree...
MR2Mike said:
Do you think that just possibly the perception that mobile use it dangerous comes from the rather common sight of cars veering around randomly with the driver gassing away on the phone?
No, I think the perception comes from the government's brilliant ability to spin statistics and made-up statements with no scientific or otherwise backing into adverts which those without the ability to think for themselves will see and regard as fact.
It's rather common for me to see mothers veering around randomly in 4x4's with the driver fighting to keep control of her children climbing around the back seat... shall we ban children in cars?
MR2Mike said:
FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to talk and drive?
FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to drive at all? There's a chance you could hit a small child that runs into the road and you're polluting the planet...
Admitedly, some people are unable to drive to a decent standard whilst using a mobile, but then again some people seem unable to drive a car a breathe at the same time... where do we draw the line? Stop mothers driving with small children? Stop under 25s driving with a baseball cap on? Sure the simplest and most effective way of dealing with problems on the road and improving road safety is so properly use laws that have existed for years to remove risk drivers. Put simply, if someone is driving like an @rse for ANY reason, punish them under the laws of Undue Care and Attention, Dangerous Driving etc etc.
Don't punish people for potentially being a risk/breaking the law...
Ask anyine who rides a motorbike if they think drivers on phones are less attentive ..... or if they think they can spot a car where the driver is on the phone .....
I don't think you will get many bikers who take the view that it has no effect on driving abilities ...... bikers (generally, I would add) take alot more care in trying to assess what car drivers are doing or are likely to do than the average driver does - this having something to do with the bikers vulnerability!
I don't think you will get many bikers who take the view that it has no effect on driving abilities ...... bikers (generally, I would add) take alot more care in trying to assess what car drivers are doing or are likely to do than the average driver does - this having something to do with the bikers vulnerability!
gh0st said:
I am a biker.
Then generally you should know what I mean ...... if you are happy you can concentrate when on the phone I am sure you realise that there are many more who don't.
I ride most days of the year and know if I see a car behave in a - lets say - somewhat strange manner ...... that invariably, but admittedly not always, the driver is on a mobile phone.
MR2Mike said:
Do you think that just possibly the perception that mobile use it dangerous comes from the rather common sight of cars veering around randomly with the driver gassing away on the phone?
So...
SOME people drive dangerously when using a mobile phone, just like
SOME people drive dangerously when scratching their arse and
SOME people drive dangerously with both hands on the wheel.
There is a law against this behaviour known as Dangerous Driving. Why does there need to be a special law making use of mobile phones illegal whether or not the driver is also commiting the offense of Dangerous Driving?
Should we also have a law which says if you scratch your arse in a car while the engine is running (even in a traffic jam) you get 3 points and a fine?
MR2Mike said:
FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to talk and drive?
Every time you drive your car you create a certain element of risk. You are endangering the lives of others and yourself! Imagine if you had a heart attack while driving! Imagine if your tyre burst and your car crashed into another!
FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to drive?
You will find that answers to this question also apply to all other blinkered and short-sighted questions such as the one in the previous post.
john57 said:
I am a biker.
Then generally you should know what I mean ...... if you are happy you can concentrate when on the phone I am sure you realise that there are many more who don't.
I ride most days of the year and know if I see a car behave in a - lets say - somewhat strange manner ...... that invariably, but admittedly not always, the driver is on a mobile phone.
I do, but the 2 non-fault (however have learnt from them) accidents that I have had involving car drivers have been when they have been fully "alert"
, one of them even looking straight at me in disbelief as they pulled out in front of me!! I know phones CAN be a distraction and some people are not as attentive when using them and on the bike I will pay extra attention to those holding a phone to their ear as I would to those not checking their mirrors or doing odd things. What gets me is this "If I am unable to do it, then no-one else can and it should be banned" attitude.
You see it also with the numpty f
kwits that flash you when you overtake them perfectly legally and safely in a 60 when they are doing 35-40. Because they CAN'T do it they assume no-one else can therefore its illegal and dangerous... People who can accept and tolorate that some people can do things, some people cant and the people that cant dont, are fine by me
alexf said:
Lots of sensible stuff
alexf also said:
Should we also have a law which says if you scratch your arse in a car while the engine is running (even in a traffic jam) you get 3 points and a fine?
I'm sure they would have if it was as easy to police as speed limits and mobile phone use. Call me cynical but:
Easy to police = better statistics = better chance of numpty guardian readers voting for Labour
MR2Mike said:
And whats wrong with lighting up a fag?
Everything. Quite apart from the disgusting behvaiour of filthy smokers treating the whole world as their ashtray, lighting a fag requires far more attention than e.g. changing a CD simply because the consequences of getting it wrong are that much worse.
Interesting sidetopic: I no longer smoke, but did for over 40 years - as many as 40 a day. In all that time, I've covered somewhere in the region of 1,000,000 miles. The only accidents I have been involved in have been when other idiots have run into the back of my car.
I've also had a couple of speeding fines over the years. I guess that makes me a disaster looking for somewhere to happen - I don't think so!
alexf said:
FFS, unless it's an absolute emergency why do you need to drive?
Now that's just silly, why does anyone need to drive? Perhaps to get to work and earn a living so I can pay my mortgage and feed my familly, in the absence of any other suitable transport?
I've managed to do this every working day for the last 18 odd years without feeling any compulsion to make a phone call whilst driving. I have had my mobile ring whilst in the car, and if it's convienient I simply pull over and ring back whoever is trying to contact me,. If not, they'll try again later if it's important.
For these reasons I have no problem with the mobile phone legislation whatsoever. It's preventing a needless risk. However safe you *think* you are with a phone clamped against your head, you're not as safe as you are without it.
:Quote: For these reasons I have no problem with the mobile phone legislation whatsoever. It's preventing a needless risk. However safe you *think* you are with a phone clamped against your head, you're not as safe as you are without it. :quote:
This is a really stupid argument for a law, IMHO. If you are going to legislate for everything that increases the risk of something happening you enter into the end state of the "I Robot" film! You will end up by making anything illegal that could possible lead to an accident. The mantra of "Speed Kills" and "Using mobile phones Kills" has about as much validity as the "Guns Kill" arguments we had before hand guns were banned. In that case it did not work, gun crime has soared since the introduction of the ban, and even worse it is seen as the latest "must have" for kids at school!
Speed does not kill, driving dangerously and causing accidents whilst travelling at a speed unsuitable for the conditions kills, using a mobile phone does not kill, driving dangerously whilst being distracted kills. There were, and still are, perfectly good laws concerning Dangerous Driving and Driving without due care etc that cover the whole remit of this topic and were well known about and enforceable. The introduction of a specific new law to cover mobile phones was a complete was of time, money and effort. It is, however typical of the increasing amount of legislation and red tape that this government seems to relish placing upon this country.
Until people realise that they have a responsibility to themselves and others to conduct themselves reasonable and with due care all the legislation in the world is never going to work. Bring back more BiB to enforce the rules we have rather than inventing new crimes that are neither valid or justified.
Rant over!
This is a really stupid argument for a law, IMHO. If you are going to legislate for everything that increases the risk of something happening you enter into the end state of the "I Robot" film! You will end up by making anything illegal that could possible lead to an accident. The mantra of "Speed Kills" and "Using mobile phones Kills" has about as much validity as the "Guns Kill" arguments we had before hand guns were banned. In that case it did not work, gun crime has soared since the introduction of the ban, and even worse it is seen as the latest "must have" for kids at school!
Speed does not kill, driving dangerously and causing accidents whilst travelling at a speed unsuitable for the conditions kills, using a mobile phone does not kill, driving dangerously whilst being distracted kills. There were, and still are, perfectly good laws concerning Dangerous Driving and Driving without due care etc that cover the whole remit of this topic and were well known about and enforceable. The introduction of a specific new law to cover mobile phones was a complete was of time, money and effort. It is, however typical of the increasing amount of legislation and red tape that this government seems to relish placing upon this country.
Until people realise that they have a responsibility to themselves and others to conduct themselves reasonable and with due care all the legislation in the world is never going to work. Bring back more BiB to enforce the rules we have rather than inventing new crimes that are neither valid or justified.
Rant over!
rewc said:
In Poole a lady motorist was parked quite safely but had left the engine running whilst making a call. She had a child or baby in a travelling seat. She was given a very strong bollocking by a reportedly very stroppy police woman who actually accussed her of being a bad mother before giving her the fixed penalty. This of course reduced the woman to tears. The womans husband complained and there was an article in the local paper. The Penalty notice was withdrawn with the police making a wish washy statement about the policewoman being over enthusiastic.
Most of us realise that the police have a difficult time and I would not want to clear the streets of Bournemouth on a Saturday night. I am sure they meet all sorts of scrouts in there job but there is no reason for them to assume we all are. We on the other hand rarely have anything to do with the police but when we do it is invariably to do with traffic and that is where we form our opinions about the Police.
Nail. Head. Hit.
MR2Mike said:
However safe you *think* you are with a phone clamped against your head, you're not as safe as you are without it.
Prove it.
I have proven, without doubt that my driving is unaffected by many many thousands of miles clocked with with absolutly no problem whatsoever. The only 2 accidents I have had have been off the phone, one was a driver rearending me and anotehr was one pulling into the side of me at a roundabout. Both times no phone was involved.
I am not speakingt for anyone else, just me so prove that I am any less aware while talking on a phone than talking to a passenger. If you cant, you really have no argument do you.
So you prove in my case that it makes a difference and I will stop using my perfectly legal handsfree safe phone setup...
For me there is only one road traffic offence which can have negative road safety implications if over enforced (apart from the obvious PR aspect), and that is excess speed. It is the only offence which motorists commit as part of their safe driving technique. And remote enforcement also carries with it a bag full of other negatives.
But the majority of other motoring offences are, in a general sense, a question of 'degrees of negative' depending on numerous factors, eg circumstances in which offending behaviour is committed, and the severity of lapse of motoring skills caused by this behaviour.
Because we do not always get the opportunity to watch mobile phone users for a significant period of driving time, we have to deal with the matter in a more general sense considering the potential of the use of the hand held mobile to affect manner of driving. There are studies out there which have suggested that you are at significantly higher risk of causing an accident whilst using a mobile phone.
My own experience bears that out with many more accidents now being attributable to loss of concentration due to their use. Operationally it is often easy to spot mobile phone users on the motorway, because they are the ones who have stopped 'driving' - they often coast (small c) in lane 1 or 2 generally stuck slightly closer to the vehicle ahead than they should be, and are obviously not thinking about their driving. Any anticipation and planning has obviously disappeared, and one can only guess where their concentration is being used. Unfortunately this is also true of many users of hands free phones also.
So in the absence of a crystal ball, or a driver's certificate to confirm the driver's ability to multitask with absolutely no added risk, then the hand held mobile user will always make my fixed penalty pad one sheet lighter, unless usage is in stationary traffic in a situation which is very unlikely to add risk.
But the majority of other motoring offences are, in a general sense, a question of 'degrees of negative' depending on numerous factors, eg circumstances in which offending behaviour is committed, and the severity of lapse of motoring skills caused by this behaviour.
Because we do not always get the opportunity to watch mobile phone users for a significant period of driving time, we have to deal with the matter in a more general sense considering the potential of the use of the hand held mobile to affect manner of driving. There are studies out there which have suggested that you are at significantly higher risk of causing an accident whilst using a mobile phone.
My own experience bears that out with many more accidents now being attributable to loss of concentration due to their use. Operationally it is often easy to spot mobile phone users on the motorway, because they are the ones who have stopped 'driving' - they often coast (small c) in lane 1 or 2 generally stuck slightly closer to the vehicle ahead than they should be, and are obviously not thinking about their driving. Any anticipation and planning has obviously disappeared, and one can only guess where their concentration is being used. Unfortunately this is also true of many users of hands free phones also.
So in the absence of a crystal ball, or a driver's certificate to confirm the driver's ability to multitask with absolutely no added risk, then the hand held mobile user will always make my fixed penalty pad one sheet lighter, unless usage is in stationary traffic in a situation which is very unlikely to add risk.
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