RE: Scameras don't save lives: official
Monday 5th September 2005
Scameras don't save lives: official
Once more, the case is proven
 The answer's a Gatso. Now, what was the question? |
Huddersfield's speed cameras have blossomed as have the numbers of motorists convicted of speeding. Yet the numbers those injured or killed in road accidents have not fallen.
A sequence of events has been repeated in a number of places once again demonstrates that government policies on road safety don't match the reality.
According to local paper The Huddersfield Daily Examiner (see link below), the number of offences committed by drivers in West Yorkshire has jumped by a staggering 2,400 per cent in the last five years, from 3,789 in 1999 to 94,923 in 2004. Meanwhile, the numbers of traffic police have fallen from 313 to 252, coinciding with the introduction of speed cameras. Yet the numbers of road accident-based fatalities remains at or around 3,000 nationally -- which any sensible analysis would suggest that current policies simply are not working.
The paper obtained its information under the Freeedom of Information Act.
Discussion
Andrew D said:
Not that I'm defending scameras, but comparing West Yorkshire offence and police numbers to national accident statistics is meaningless.
You're absolutely right. Statistics like this are just as bad as those that the government present. A fight against the government has to be clean and not misguided like they are.
jesprit said:
Not that I'm defending scameras, but comparing West Yorkshire offence and police numbers to national accident statistics is meaningless.
You're absolutely right. Statistics like this are just as bad as those that the government present. A fight against the government has to be clean and not misguided like they are.
Indeed.
And putting such drivel under a heading of 'Once more, the case is proven' makes matters worse. If I wanted to read stuff like this I'd go out and buy the Sun.
Most people in England, influenced by Clarkson and the like think it is unacceptable to have speed cameras which are mainly in 30mph areas (to protect pedestrians) warning people that if they go much over 30mph they will be flashed, fined, penalised. What is the problem with sticking to the speed limit in a 30mph zone? It makes it more fun when you accelerate directly from 30mph to 60mph in certain areas when you come out of the 30mph limits too. I regularly fantasize about zooming head on into an inncocent child or adult, splatting them all over my windscreen, which is why i stick to the 30mph speed limit. Clarkson should stop crying about speed cameras all the time, big, curly haired baby.
the issue is not with limits but how they are set there are a lot of 30s in my area and most i agree with however some 30s should clearly be 40s or 50s and a lot of 50s should be 60s or national speed limit like the A2 a major A road with a silly 50 limit its should be 70 or at the very least 60 but 50 is stupidly low and just has everyone slamming on the breaks at the various camara sites this is bound to cause loss of concentration and irritation which will likly have the opposite effect of what the camaras are supposed to be there for
pjp666 said:
Most people in England, influenced by Clarkson and the like think it is unacceptable to have speed cameras which are mainly in 30mph areas
not many people here have a problem with doing 30 or less in builtup areas with pedestrians etc... i must drive past about 12 cameras to get in/out of london most of which are in wholely inapropriate 40 or 50 mph 3 lane dual carriageways with no pedestrian pavements.
try banding your views around in a max power forum.... they might bite
>> Edited by francisb on Monday 5th September 18:12
pjp666 said:
Most people in England, influenced by Clarkson and the like think it is unacceptable to have speed cameras which are mainly in 30mph areas (to protect pedestrians) warning people that if they go much over 30mph they will be flashed, fined, penalised. What is the problem with sticking to the speed limit in a 30mph zone? It makes it more fun when you accelerate directly from 30mph to 60mph in certain areas when you come out of the 30mph limits too. I regularly fantasize about zooming head on into an inncocent child or adult, splatting them all over my windscreen, which is why i stick to the 30mph speed limit. Clarkson should stop crying about speed cameras all the time, big, curly haired baby.
I much prefer looking at my speedo when I'm splattering children. You see if I bury my head in my speedo I don't see them step out, I don't see the splat when I hit them and I don't get fined for speeding.
These days I stick to 30 without fail, just like you sugggested. I have to say, it's a win win situation, apart from the poor kid, obviously, but if a few kids have to die then surely that's a price worth paying for remaining religiously within the law.
....mind you, i failed to tell you that i did a speed awareness course in June and i have totally changed my attitude to speeding in 30mph zones. It was amazing the amount of us there who didn't appreciate speed limits. It was amusing to listen to the ones older than myself complaining about "cars these days are not designed to drive slow." tee-hee. I put my hands up and said i thought i could get away with 5mph, 6mph, 7mph over the limit, but then that should mean its acceptable for everyone to do, then head on collisions become an extra 14mph, blah, blah, blah... so thats why i don't have to worry about speed cameras anymore.
Its also fun, again in the 30mph zones, to see Mr/s Max Power (as you had mentioned) zoom up behind me then have to get held up unless he/she overtakes. Even more amusing to wonder how the naughty policemen coming up behind me in 30mph zones have caught me up!
Its also fun, again in the 30mph zones, to see Mr/s Max Power (as you had mentioned) zoom up behind me then have to get held up unless he/she overtakes. Even more amusing to wonder how the naughty policemen coming up behind me in 30mph zones have caught me up!
pjp666 said:
i have totally changed my attitude to speeding in 30mph zones. It was amazing the amount of us there who didn't appreciate speed limits.
What do you mean by 'speeding' in the context of 'speeding in 30 mph zones'?
And, what is the appreciation of speed limits that you seem to have found?
I have not problem with speed cameras in 30's, as long as they aren't hidden or the council don't forget to cut the trees in front of them accidentally on purpose, although for some reason i'm always worried that a butterfly could flap it's wings in Tibet and push my car up to 31mph, and that'll be me 25% towards disqualification, or maybe i'm just paranoid (but probably not).
The thing that really gets me is finding tallivans on our town's dual carriageway bypass, which was recently dropped from an appropriate 70mph limit to a laughable 50mph, and a pedestrian would have to walk for 25 minutes and scale a 40-foot embankment to get onto, at 8pm on a sunday, handing out penalty points for doing 55mph.
The thing that really gets me is finding tallivans on our town's dual carriageway bypass, which was recently dropped from an appropriate 70mph limit to a laughable 50mph, and a pedestrian would have to walk for 25 minutes and scale a 40-foot embankment to get onto, at 8pm on a sunday, handing out penalty points for doing 55mph.
I have a problem with speed cameras full stop!Whether they are in 30 mph zones or hiding on motorways. The simple truth is that they have no effect on casualty reduction, and while they are sitting there making a profit real road safety measures are being ignored. The speed camera has produced a 1 dimensional approach to road safety that IS costing lives. If we could replace a 50th of the cameras with traffic police we would have a reduction in the number of people killed and injured on our roads! We would see a drop in uninsured drivers (who wreck many lives), unroadworthy vehicles, drink driving, dangerous and inconsiderate driving etc etc non of which are touched by cameras!
Speed awareness course? What about advanced driving courses that teach you how to drive safely (as opposed to under the limit)? Sorry I forgot, its better to hit someone at 28mph (they'll almost certainly survive) than to learn how predict hazards and avoid them in the first place
Speed awareness course? What about advanced driving courses that teach you how to drive safely (as opposed to under the limit)? Sorry I forgot, its better to hit someone at 28mph (they'll almost certainly survive) than to learn how predict hazards and avoid them in the first place
pjp666 said:
What is the problem with sticking to the speed limit in a 30mph zone? It makes it more fun when you accelerate directly from 30mph to 60mph in certain areas when you come out of the 30mph limits too.
Around my way in any limit the state of many roads makes 30 or 60 a forlorn and distant target unless you are in some sort of 4x4 or perhaps something with close to full rally spec.
Roads with cameras seem to have settled at 'normal speed of around 20 to 25 mph in the 30's and 40 to 45 in the NSL's. So the people are obviously heeding the message that the limits are maximums not targets. Seems that did not come across in your course pjp666. I would really love to know what you attitude to 30 limits was prior to the course.
I think it may be time to find a way of putting a little fun back into tavelling at very low speeds. Perhaps an Austin Seven with beefed up suspension to cope with the potholes. Presumably they can be made to go loud even when travelling slowly?
LongQ said:
What is the problem with sticking to the speed limit in a 30mph zone? It makes it more fun when you accelerate directly from 30mph to 60mph in certain areas when you come out of the 30mph limits too.
Around my way in any limit the state of many roads makes 30 or 60 a forlorn and distant target unless you are in some sort of 4x4 or perhaps something with close to full rally spec.
Roads with cameras seem to have settled at 'normal speed of around 20 to 25 mph in the 30's and 40 to 45 in the NSL's. So the people are obviously heeding the message that the limits are maximums not targets. Seems that did not come across in your course pjp666. I would really love to know what you attitude to 30 limits was prior to the course.
I think it may be time to find a way of putting a little fun back into tavelling at very low speeds. Perhaps an Austin Seven with beefed up suspension to cope with the potholes. Presumably they can be made to go loud even when travelling slowly?
Put in big V8 in the Seven, but keep the pram wheels & tyres. Not much acceleration, but MASSIVE darkies and powerslides possible (through all 3 gears)!!
MilnerR said:
I have a problem with speed cameras full stop!Whether they are in 30 mph zones or hiding on motorways. The simple truth is that they have no effect on casualty reduction, and while they are sitting there making a profit real road safety measures are being ignored. The speed camera has produced a 1 dimensional approach to road safety that IS costing lives. If we could replace a 50th of the cameras with traffic police we would have a reduction in the number of people killed and injured on our roads! We would see a drop in uninsured drivers (who wreck many lives), unroadworthy vehicles, drink driving, dangerous and inconsiderate driving etc etc non of which are touched by cameras!
Speed awareness course? What about advanced driving courses that teach you how to drive safely (as opposed to under the limit)? Sorry I forgot, its better to hit someone at 28mph (they'll almost certainly survive) than to learn how predict hazards and avoid them in the first place
hear hear Hi. Sorry to be a bore, when i said appreciation of speed limits, where exactly to look out for the speed limits. Yes they are big signs, but strangely easy to miss, if you aren't looking. You can tell this by following people who trundle doing 35mph in alternating 30mph and 40mph zones, thinking "ooh built up area, must be 30 or 40". Oops, thats what i used to think. Obviously, the course covers looking out for potential hazzards and pesky kids too. Oh, man, if i'd not got caught speeding in the first place, i wouldn't have to have done the stupid course and become a new thinking driver anyway.
pjp666 said:
..What is the problem with sticking to the speed limit in a 30mph zone?...
The problem is that a great many 30 limits are inappropriate; they are way too low. Some are on roads that quite correctly used to be 60 limits and in the days when most cars' top speed was not much more than that, with brakes to match.
Don't just assume a 30 limit means that the limit is appropriate. (That applies to any limit.) The more stupid speed limits become, the less people will respect them.
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