Speed cameras: Are we interested in evidence?

[Dave Finney]

Here's a short video examining the evidence at mobile speed camera sites in Thames Valley (Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GqOm-keyss

But are we actually interested in evidence, or do we want policy to be based on our opinions?

[jm doc]

No comments from the Speed Camera Partnerships. What a surprise, no doubt too busy counting the money.

[NFT]

I always suspected the sudden presence of a van distracting drivers mildly over limit and stealing their focus and attention from the road and often causing a harsh slowing down with only focus on speedo endangered otherwise safely traveling public, mildly over limit due to good conditions, inducing road layout and lack of population around them, won't help argument against a NIP though.

P.S, there is also the distress, upset and anger some have after being snapped by van man, affecting driving for what I think is most victims for a long period afterwards, including days following, day on receiving nip and having to deal with the injustice of it when no one was at risk, didn't mean to and only danger was van man and the cash generating policy. leaving a long term disruption in the drivers mental state, often when driving and general long term damage to public safety on the roads due to him.

Edited by NFT on Thursday 23 November 14:52

[Muzzer79]

NFT said:

I always suspected the sudden presence of a van distracting drivers mildly over limit and stealing their focus and attention from the road and often causing a harsh slowing down with only focus on speedo endangered otherwise safely traveling public, mildly over limit due to good conditions, inducing road layout and lack of population around them, won't help argument against a NIP though.

P.S, there is also the distress, upset and anger some have after being snapped by van man, affecting driving for what I think is most victims for a long period afterwards, including days following, day on receiving nip and having to deal with the injustice of it when no one was at risk, didn't mean to and only danger was van man and the cash generating policy. leaving a long term disruption in the drivers mental state, often when driving and general long term damage to public safety on the roads due to him.

Edited by NFT on Thursday 23 November 14:52

Sadly, the insurmountable argument against all that is to just obey the speed limit.

Then there's no harsh slowing down, distress or anger.

I don't subscribe to the 'speed kills' all the time mantra. But having surrendered to just sticking to the speed limit now. It's not worth the grief of dodging the many, many cameras on our roads.

[Vasco]

NFT said:

I always suspected the sudden presence of a van distracting drivers mildly over limit and stealing their focus and attention from the road and often causing a harsh slowing down with only focus on speedo endangered otherwise safely traveling public, mildly over limit due to good conditions, inducing road layout and lack of population around them, won't help argument against a NIP though.

P.S, there is also the distress, upset and anger some have after being snapped by van man, affecting driving for what I think is most victims for a long period afterwards, including days following, day on receiving nip and having to deal with the injustice of it when no one was at risk, didn't mean to and only danger was van man and the cash generating policy. leaving a long term disruption in the drivers mental state, often when driving and general long term damage to public safety on the roads due to him.

Edited by NFT on Thursday 23 November 14:52

Thank goodness there's a foolproof way of avoiding such problems.....

[NFT]

Vasco said:

Thank goodness there's a foolproof way of avoiding such problems.....

No sure way to proof a fool who doesn't have/use cruise control.

[Mandat]

Muzzer79 said:

Sadly, the insurmountable argument against all that is to just obey the speed limit.

Then there's no harsh slowing down, distress or anger.

I don't subscribe to the 'speed kills' all the time mantra. But having surrendered to just sticking to the speed limit now. It's not worth the grief of dodging the many, many cameras on our roads.

That wouldn't be a problem if speed limits remained at or near the natural safe speed for a particular road.

[Stick Legs]

Dave Finney said:

Here's a short video examining the evidence at mobile speed camera sites in Thames Valley (Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GqOm-keyss

But are we actually interested in evidence, or do we want policy to be based on our opinions?

Thank you for going to the effort.

As with any scientific study observation skews the results. So it seems with Cameras.

The presence of them adds another variable into the driving environment, and therefore the rate is affected.

Anyone who gets statistics will understand this.

The carping of ‘just drive at the limit’ ignores the point you are making.

[Zetec-S]

Where does this data come from?

Not a big fan of them, but if you did remove all speed camera's I'm pretty sure we'd see a big increase in speeds being driven. They play a part in reigning in most responsible drivers who know in the back of their mind that they probably shouldn't go silly speeds in case a camera catches them.

It always makes me laugh when people say they are used to generate revenue. If that was truly the case then I can think of half a dozens spots they could set up on my commute where they'd rake in thousands every day.


(edited to remove an unwarranted and unnecessary "pop" at the OP, apologies)

Edited by Zetec-S on Thursday 23 November 18:01

[Geffg]

Zetec-S said:

Where does this data come from?

Not a big fan of them, but if you did remove all speed camera's I'm pretty sure we'd see a big increase in speeds being driven. They play a part in reigning in most responsible drivers who know in the back of their mind that they probably shouldn't go silly speeds in case a camera catches them.

It always makes me laugh when people say they are used to generate revenue. If that was truly the case then I can think of half a dozens spots they could set up on my commute where they'd rake in thousands every day.


(edited to remove an unwarranted and unnecessary "pop" at the OP, apologies)

Edited by Zetec-S on Thursday 23 November 18:01

I personally dont think speeds would increase, maybe for the odd one but generally most people drive to how they think the road warrants. In areas I know don’t have speed cameras or ever policed by vans, I don’t speed excessively just because I know there won’t be any cameras and I don’t see motorists excessively speeding in those places either.
When they go on about how many deaths on the roads they put it across as if it’s speeding in every case. I wish they’d break it down of how they happened to give a true reflection.
They have technology to stop speeding but don’t use it which shows it’s all about money. The money invested into catching speeding must be a quite a lot and they wouldn’t invest that if they weren’t going to get a return.

[Sporky]

Mandat said:

That wouldn't be a problem if speed limits remained at or near the natural safe speed for a particular road.

Can you define "natural safe speed"?

Does it vary with different times of day, weather, different drivers or different cars?

[ferret50]

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[vonhosen]

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

[ferret50]

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

[NFT]

ferret50 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

Indeed, I have noticed how having cars taken, damaged and stolen from is almost abandoned, officer investigating theft just wanting to close case asap, but mild speeding NIP's are inevitably sent and unquestionably pursued like a murder took place. Funny old world.

[ferret50]

NFT said:

ferret50 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

Indeed, I have noticed how having cars taken, damaged and stolen from is almost abandoned, officer investigating theft just wanting to close case asap, but mild speeding NIP's are inevitably sent and unquestionably pursued like a murder took place. Funny old world.

If only plod would apply the same levels of service to 'proper' police work!

[vonhosen]

ferret50 said:

NFT said:

ferret50 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

Indeed, I have noticed how having cars taken, damaged and stolen from is almost abandoned, officer investigating theft just wanting to close case asap, but mild speeding NIP's are inevitably sent and unquestionably pursued like a murder took place. Funny old world.

If only plod would apply the same levels of service to 'proper' police work!

Poor old hard done motorist.

How many points/fines have you had over how many years?

I've had none in 40 years & that's without sticking rabidly to speed limits & driving in areas of higher concentration than most.

Can't say I feel victimised.

[Boosted LS1]

Sporky said:

Mandat said:

That wouldn't be a problem if speed limits remained at or near the natural safe speed for a particular road.

Can you define "natural safe speed"?

Does it vary with different times of day, weather, different drivers or different cars?

The 85th percentile seemed to work or at least I thought it did. Won't have raised as much cash though.

[Boosted LS1]

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

NFT said:

ferret50 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

Indeed, I have noticed how having cars taken, damaged and stolen from is almost abandoned, officer investigating theft just wanting to close case asap, but mild speeding NIP's are inevitably sent and unquestionably pursued like a murder took place. Funny old world.

If only plod would apply the same levels of service to 'proper' police work!

Poor old hard done motorist.

How many points/fines have you had over how many years?

I've had none in 40 years & that's without sticking rabidly to speed limits & driving in areas of higher concentration than most.

Can't say I feel victimised.

Just wait until your home gets burgled. The police response will be lame.

[pocketspring]

Boosted LS1 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

NFT said:

ferret50 said:

vonhosen said:

ferret50 said:

It seems very odd that plod can find the time, staff and resources to man camara vans and service fixed camaras when they cannot find the same to answer a telephone.....

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Different budget/department.

Of course it is, the motorist stumps up the cash whilst the villians laugh!

Indeed, I have noticed how having cars taken, damaged and stolen from is almost abandoned, officer investigating theft just wanting to close case asap, but mild speeding NIP's are inevitably sent and unquestionably pursued like a murder took place. Funny old world.

If only plod would apply the same levels of service to 'proper' police work!

Poor old hard done motorist.

How many points/fines have you had over how many years?

I've had none in 40 years & that's without sticking rabidly to speed limits & driving in areas of higher concentration than most.

Can't say I feel victimised.

Just wait until your home gets burgled. The police response will be lame.

He's a police officer so his mates will be around there before you can say doughnuts.