Speed cameras: Are we interested in evidence?

[heebeegeetee]

Dave Finney said:

I do like questions about the evidence/data (thank you) but I don't know the answer for those Fixed camera sites.
Your quote is from this quick summary: https://speedcamerareport.co.uk/09_fixed/

The raw data is on my website, so you could work it out for yourself.
If I find time, maybe I could do that for you?

For the mobile sites, some were NOT selected after a high collision rate during the SSP,
In fact, 12 of the sites had no collisions at all in the SSP.
Fairly obviously, collision numbers could only go one way (up) and they did.
There were 14 collisions in the first 3 years of mobile speed camera operations at these 12 sites.

Thanks. How long does the SSP take, usually?

[Dave Finney]

heebeegeetee said:

Thanks. How long does the SSP take, usually?

The SSP is the period of time when collisions influence the choice of where to place cameras.
The SSP is not a set period, different officials chose different SSPs, but they tend to be around 3 years now.

In the early days, fixed cameras were installed by the local councils and they used an SSP of 5 years.
In TV the cameras took at least 6 months to install, and there were delays with some sites of up to a further 6 months.
So the SSP for the group of fixed cameras was 5.5 years.

Much later, almost all mobile camera sites were chosen by the new partnership and they used a 2.5 year SSP.
With no delays, the SSP for the group of mobiles was that 2.5 years,
and this can clearly be seen in the graphs in the video and report.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GqOm-keyss

[YorkshireStu]

Mandat said:

That wouldn't be a problem if speed limits remained at or near the natural safe speed for a particular road.

Which has to allow for other road users such as cyclists and horse riders etc and NOT be based solely upon what a motor vehicle may be capable of doing.

It also has to take into account older, less capable vehicles and varying weather conditions and traffic density.

It also has to take into account varying driving abilities because a Driver’s License alone is a low bar to achieve.

Contrary to the beliefs of the increasingly pathetic PH Driving God, public roads were not created for their amusement or ‘making progress’ according to the speed that they would prefer.

The cameras are not only fine as they are, we need more and the entire country to be subject to an average-speed system with automatic fines and permanent bans zero exceptions in place.

The UK is far more congested than it was in the 1950’s - 1980’s and people need to come to terms with that. More road users means greater care is required and cars being more capable doesn’t address that nearly enough.

[Pit Pony]

Graveworm said:

KTMsm said:

Dave Finney said:

How much "driving above speed limits" do you think might be taking place?
IOW, in your estimation, what percentage of all miles driven was above the speed limit?

Where it's possible - IE you're not stuck in traffic, I suggest it's somewhere around :

60% on country roads, including going through villages

40% in residential areas

20% on motorways - most traffic has slowed down since fuel prices increased some years ago

30mph limits - 50% comply
Motorway - 55% comply
NSL single carriageway 89% comply
20mph 12 percent comply

So how many of the 88% that are doing over 20 mph are doing less than 30 mph ?
I imagine (with no data at all) that 12% are doing less than 20 mph, 28% are doing less than 25mph, and 40% are doing less than 30mph leaving 20% doing more than 30 mph. Which would be judged as a "success" ?

On my estate, cars used to drive at 35 to 40 mph and now with 20 mph limits seem to be keeping between 25 to 30 mph.

[andrebar]

Pit Pony said:

Graveworm said:

KTMsm said:

Dave Finney said:

How much "driving above speed limits" do you think might be taking place?
IOW, in your estimation, what percentage of all miles driven was above the speed limit?

Where it's possible - IE you're not stuck in traffic, I suggest it's somewhere around :

60% on country roads, including going through villages

40% in residential areas

20% on motorways - most traffic has slowed down since fuel prices increased some years ago

30mph limits - 50% comply
Motorway - 55% comply
NSL single carriageway 89% comply
20mph 12 percent comply

So how many of the 88% that are doing over 20 mph are doing less than 30 mph ?
I imagine (with no data at all) that 12% are doing less than 20 mph, 28% are doing less than 25mph, and 40% are doing less than 30mph leaving 20% doing more than 30 mph. Which would be judged as a "success" ?

On my estate, cars used to drive at 35 to 40 mph and now with 20 mph limits seem to be keeping between 25 to 30 mph.

50% comply with 30 limits, so if reducing a 30 limit to 20 leaves only 20% of traffic exceeding 30mph then yes it might well be judged a success.

That’s the logic I’ve seen from a couple of local councils anyway. They won’t be measuring the success in greater compliance of a limit they can’t afford to enforce anyway.

[bigothunter]

YorkshireStu said:

The cameras are not only fine as they are, we need more and the entire country to be subject to an average-speed system with automatic fines and permanent bans zero exceptions in place.

Rather extreme view of a self-proclaimed 'Cyclist on a car forum'. Should we take any notice?

[Dave Finney]

YorkshireStu said:

Mandat said:

That wouldn't be a problem if speed limits remained at or near the natural safe speed for a particular road.

The cameras are not only fine as they are, we need more and the entire country to be subject to an average-speed system with automatic fines and permanent bans zero exceptions in place.

May I ask why?
Is it your perception that speed cameras actually do save lives?
Remember the speed camera partnerships were told "Public perception must be actively managed".

Suppose speed cameras are leading to more deaths,
how many people dead every year would you tolerate and still support their current operations?

I propose something which to me is obvious, yet seems radical to many,
Let's PROVE what effect speed cameras are having by running them within scientific trials!

[Dave Finney]

New average speed cameras in Manchester,
and they are using an RAC report using my FTP method to:
1. claim they will save lives, and
2. refuse to run a scientific trial.

The cameras: https://news.tfgm.com/press-releases/3e9a126d-b617...
The RAC report: https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2...