Major fault- Dealer saying write off
Discussion
sugerbear said:
Its down to the dealer to prove that the fault present when the car was sold, not for the buyer.
I would be sending a formal letter to the finance company. They own the car and are in a srronger a position to resolve otherwise they have to give you your money back
Do you mean not present?I would be sending a formal letter to the finance company. They own the car and are in a srronger a position to resolve otherwise they have to give you your money back
The dealer is hardly likely to want to prove the fault was present at the time of purchase?
I did suggest OP contacts the finance company on the first page as it is technically their car
Seems not a question of IF but WHEN the water damage occurred and who's responsibility it is.
Their suggestion that you fraudulently claim from your insurance to get them off the hook might just backfire here; a decent insurance inspector may be able to assess how recent it was.
(I knew a guy who used to do it for an insurance company- common dodge to get new policy then claim previous uninsured damage, common giveaway being weeks of rust on freshly damaged areas)
Could the ECU be interrogated further for previous fault codes?
Does it have a sunroof that could have been left open that might have wetted the front carpets?
But leaking cars tend to mist up on the inside, so you would have noticed the carpets being wet.
Ok,
The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
there are a few other thoughts here...
- if the underlay has been waterlogged for 7+ months I'd imagine that there might well be quite an 'interesting' smell
- if there's been 7+ months of water lying in the underlay wouldn't there be some evidence of rust/rot when the carpets are lifted?
in both cases, it'll mean more ££ being spent by you/ S.i.L. but if it provides proof then I'd imagine money well spent?
Is there some way of checking the number plate against social media for (possible) evidence of previous foolishness (eg Rutherford Ford)?
Is there any way of seeing if it's been sold via auction and damage mentioned there?
Have a search on owner's club forums (forae?) for issues for a few months prior to car being sold by the Volvo dealers
- if the underlay has been waterlogged for 7+ months I'd imagine that there might well be quite an 'interesting' smell
- if there's been 7+ months of water lying in the underlay wouldn't there be some evidence of rust/rot when the carpets are lifted?
in both cases, it'll mean more ££ being spent by you/ S.i.L. but if it provides proof then I'd imagine money well spent?
Is there some way of checking the number plate against social media for (possible) evidence of previous foolishness (eg Rutherford Ford)?
Is there any way of seeing if it's been sold via auction and damage mentioned there?
Have a search on owner's club forums (forae?) for issues for a few months prior to car being sold by the Volvo dealers
freedman said:
Ok,
The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
Have you double checked the water ingress exclusion OP? The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
I ask as the VW warranty for example, mentions water ingress but only to a lower limit.
GasEngineer said:
Have you double checked the water ingress exclusion OP?
I ask as the VW warranty for example, mentions water ingress but only to a lower limit.
Yes, unfortunatelyI ask as the VW warranty for example, mentions water ingress but only to a lower limit.
There is a specific exclusion in the small print
7: Failure or damage:
a. Caused by, frost, corrosion, flooding, impact, fire, accidental damage, vandalism, abuse or neglect.
d. Caused by an ingress of foreign matter (including water) or the use of a grade of fuel, lubricants, additives, or any fluids not approved for your vehicle by the manufacturer
It might be worth speaking with the insurance company for advice.
Hypothetically, if I accidentally filled my car with water, I might have a claim? So the insurers are potentially involved and should be kept informed?
There are perhaps 3 possible outcomes:
The dealer is liable
The owners insurance is liable
It's all the owner's problem.
Most of the routes to water damage are either an 'insured event' (some sort of mishap) or some sort of pre-existing fault with the car.
There's not may ways it's the owner's fault/problem.
The insurer may slug it out with the dealer.
I'd also be talking to a consumer rights solicitor.
The exclusions of the warranty don't absolve the need for the car to have been fit for purpose etc.
FWIW, a mate used to have company cars back in the 90s. He had a 3 month old BMW with one rearlight 3/4 full of water. He took it to the dealer's and complained the other light was empty.
Hypothetically, if I accidentally filled my car with water, I might have a claim? So the insurers are potentially involved and should be kept informed?
There are perhaps 3 possible outcomes:
The dealer is liable
The owners insurance is liable
It's all the owner's problem.
Most of the routes to water damage are either an 'insured event' (some sort of mishap) or some sort of pre-existing fault with the car.
There's not may ways it's the owner's fault/problem.
The insurer may slug it out with the dealer.
I'd also be talking to a consumer rights solicitor.
The exclusions of the warranty don't absolve the need for the car to have been fit for purpose etc.
FWIW, a mate used to have company cars back in the 90s. He had a 3 month old BMW with one rearlight 3/4 full of water. He took it to the dealer's and complained the other light was empty.
A few years ago, I bought a car that was also on extended warranty provided by Car Care, and also had the water exclusion.
A few months into ownership, the climate control started playing up and the car went back to the dealer for diagnosis.
They called me, and asked - repeatedly - if the battery had gone flat during my ownership. I said no : the car was used most days.
After repeating the question a few times, they told me that the fault was due to water ingress in the climate control module (my car drops the window a few mm if the battery is going flat hence the questions).
They informed me that since it was due to water ingress, the warranty wouldn't cover it, and it would cost me £1,100. Fortunately, I was well within the first 6 months, so informed them that it would actually be them paying for it - and since the car clearly leaked, they could fix that too.
It's a real shame the OPs problem didn't show up one month earlier.
A few months into ownership, the climate control started playing up and the car went back to the dealer for diagnosis.
They called me, and asked - repeatedly - if the battery had gone flat during my ownership. I said no : the car was used most days.
After repeating the question a few times, they told me that the fault was due to water ingress in the climate control module (my car drops the window a few mm if the battery is going flat hence the questions).
They informed me that since it was due to water ingress, the warranty wouldn't cover it, and it would cost me £1,100. Fortunately, I was well within the first 6 months, so informed them that it would actually be them paying for it - and since the car clearly leaked, they could fix that too.
It's a real shame the OPs problem didn't show up one month earlier.
freedman said:
GasEngineer said:
Have you double checked the water ingress exclusion OP?
I ask as the VW warranty for example, mentions water ingress but only to a lower limit.
Yes, unfortunatelyI ask as the VW warranty for example, mentions water ingress but only to a lower limit.
There is a specific exclusion in the small print
7: Failure or damage:
a. Caused by, frost, corrosion, flooding, impact, fire, accidental damage, vandalism, abuse or neglect.
d. Caused by an ingress of foreign matter (including water) or the use of a grade of fuel, lubricants, additives, or any fluids not approved for your vehicle by the manufacturer
If you can prove likely to have been there present before sale (engage a independent engineer)
OR
Is it a common design fault?
Go on some Volvo specific forums- ask for any likenminded, anyone else had this? Search the forums for keywords- ingress, soaked electrics, water rear quarter etc etc.
The rear light is just too much of a coincidence- this plus a report (if it finds issues); paint thickness check showing any sign of any repair and threat of court may be the lever.
https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/tips-for-water-...
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Saturday 23 December 23:26
It’s very unlikely the issue is caused by a one off flooding event pre ownership as car would absolutely stink due to water damage to foam parts after 7 months. On the cost side you need to get the local dealer to quote on cost of repair as it’s not their place to say whether the repair is uneconomical or not.
I get OP want this to be pre existing but they need to show fault can be traced to incorrect fitment or faulty part / design as this is 7 months after taking delivery. Most water damage outside flooding events is likely going to be down to blocked drain holes or gullies or just leaving windows down so it’s crucial to understand reason water got in.
I get OP want this to be pre existing but they need to show fault can be traced to incorrect fitment or faulty part / design as this is 7 months after taking delivery. Most water damage outside flooding events is likely going to be down to blocked drain holes or gullies or just leaving windows down so it’s crucial to understand reason water got in.
Canon_Fodder said:
Because the warranty doesn't cover water ingress.
That seems fairly obvious surely?
Are you disputing the dealer's diagnosis? If so, that's another matter...
I think you’re being unnecessarily pugnacious. That seems fairly obvious surely?
Are you disputing the dealer's diagnosis? If so, that's another matter...
Knowing nothing about this so I will caveat on that basis, it appears the car was sold with this fault, that is a different matter.
normalbloke said:
The usual lesson from this is, aftermarket warranties, just don’t….
Most cars outside of the factory warranty period are now aftermarket. They are not an extension of the OEM warranty. Someone mentioned Volvo Selekt. I know BMW is extended warranty is an ‘insured’ scheme. But water ingress is also a questionable point within the OEM warranty. If you drown the car it’s not covered, so you get into the argument about the nature of the ingress.
freedman said:
Ok,
The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
I’ve had a number of water ingress issues causing electrical problems where the original statement from the dealer is ‘water ingress not covered’. The warranties are talking about manufacturing defects, but I think many water ingress issues are vehicle design / engineering issues. And some are user abuse (flooding the car etc)… This all puts you in a murky area. The car is under Volvo Selekt warranty
There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for ingress of water, which is not good
He spoke to the finance co, who didn’t seem at all bothered about it
Of course the dealers have now gone home until 27th so can’t do much more than draft a letter of complaint with the full timeline since purchase, and see where it goes
I’m confident the water issue was present at purchase, but the only link to water being an issue then is the rear light
My issues have been solved as a combination of some manufacturer good will, and some warranty support. I’ve had to argue strongly that I haven’t submerged the car, and my case has been helped by the fault I have being well known and effecting many cars, and the fact that it’s repeated multiple times after the dealer has replaced everything they believe could be causing the issue on my car.
It’s been very wet lately. I think your first course of action is to pressure the dealer along the lines of a very clear and strong statement that car hadn’t been submerged / abused (assuming this is true). And pushing the argument that there must be something wrong with how the car is built or designed to protect it’s electrics, either way it’s looked after and been fully cared for within the dealer network so it is for the dealer / manufacturer to sort…. I’m sure they will push back, you have to calmly keep restating the above.
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