Advice on dispute with used car dealer

[unrepentant]

lord trumpton said:

Id hate to sell cars for a living

Imagine having to hold your breath for six months to pass before you can relax and forget about court action etc

fk that

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

[GasEngineer]

unrepentant said:

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

When does your "Lemon Law" come into play? Or is that not a thing.

[vaud]

GasEngineer said:

When does your "Lemon Law" come into play? Or is that not a thing.

Lemon Law exists but it varies by state and may or may not cover used vehicles. You would have to look state by state to understand how a UK scenario would apply in the US.

[OutInTheShed]

unrepentant said:

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

The problem in the UK is that some dealers are selling 'As Is' cars for 'Warranted' prices.

If a dealer has to 'warrant' that his cars are of certain quality, as mandated by the CRA, then everyone should respect that consumers pay for that.
A dealer will price into his margins all the work of checking cars over and sending a few back to auction or to be repaired or even scrapped.
The retail price you pay must also cover an element of after sales service and maybe a risk that the occasional car will be rejected.

That's business and it should be the same for all dealers and priced into the difference between 'trade in' or 'WBAC' price and 'retail'.

If you look at a few cheap cars on AT, you'll find retail prices of £3k or so related to WBAC values of £1k on a good day.
That's the reality of a dealer making a living and allowing for old cars to have the odd problem.
If you say that's £1k of gross margin and £1k allowed for doing work and risk of the car coming back etc, that would seem fair and reasonable to me.

Unfortunately, we have dealers who sell cheap cars without checking them over and then get grumpy when the customer returns the car.
AT is full of adverts offering warranties below what the CRA requires. These dealers need sorting out.

Selling cars 'As Is, buyer beware' is fine for 'projects' but there does need to be a level of responsibility that a car is roadworthy if it's sold for immediate use on the road.

Maybe the level of protection for consumers is set too high? Maybe its boundaries could be better defined.


It gets messy further up the market. Lemons which cost the dealer £1k are one thing, lemons which cost £20k don't have the same gross mark-up.
There's a world of risk between 'banger money' and 'when the manufacturer's warranty ran out'.
Possibly it's causing some viable cars to be scrapped earlier than necessary?

[unrepentant]

GasEngineer said:

unrepentant said:

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

When does your "Lemon Law" come into play? Or is that not a thing.

The lemon law really applies to new cars, to a lesser extent some used cars.

But if you buy a car that is sold "AS IS with no warranty implied or otherwise" and sign forms to that effect you really have no redress. Warranties are available for cars up to 10 years old (sometimes longer). If you are buying an older car that has value I would always recommend an independent PPI prior to purchase. Reputable dealers always do a safety inspection, even on AS IS cars but a PPI gives you a much more comprehensive picture.

[BertBert]

Are all used cars sold "as is"?

[unrepentant]

BertBert said:

Are all used cars sold "as is"?

No. Many used cars are sold with the balance of the new car warranty or are sold with a manufacturers CPO warranty. Some dealers offer a powertrain warranty and some offer a 30 day warranty on some cars. Warranties are also available for purchase for most used cars under a certain age. But dealers can sell cars with no warranty as long as they are explicit about it.

[lord trumpton]

So OP have you changed the bleedin' battery yet?

[vaud]

BertBert said:

Are all used cars sold "as is"?

Cars can be sold for "spares or repairs" and should be taken away by trailer.

[KTMsm]

unrepentant said:

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

That's how it should be - we are adults and should be allowed to make our own decisions

The CRA treats new toasters and used cars in the same way, which is ridiculous

[T0MMY]

lord trumpton said:

So OP have you changed the bleedin' battery yet?

Sorry, no I haven't! Reason being that since I disconnected the rear parking sensors I had no issues despite using the car for several days and a couple of hundred miles. The thing is, I then reconnected them and still cant recreate the problem...the car is seemingly faultless.

It leaves me none the wiser really...was there a dodgy connection that I fixed by disconnecting and reconnecting them? Or are the sensors a red herring and the issue has gone just because the car has had a different/slightly more frequent usage pattern? Or has the issue not gone at all and it's just too intermittent to have reappeared again yet? I really have no idea but it seems pointless to swap the battery at the moment.

[mcpoot]

KTMsm said:

unrepentant said:

I'd hate to sell them in the UK.

In the US we have what is known as AS IS cars. "Mr customer, this vehicle is sold AS IS. If you drive off the lot and it breaks into two congratulations, you own both halves".

If the car is outside manufacturers warranty and the buyer declines to purchase a warranty it's AS IS.

That's how it should be - we are adults and should be allowed to make our own decisions

The CRA treats new toasters and used cars in the same way, which is ridiculous

It doesn't actually. CRA treats cars differently from other goods but don't let facts spoil your rant.

[BertBert]

vaud said:

BertBert said:

Are all used cars sold "as is"?

Cars can be sold for "spares or repairs" and should be taken away by trailer.

The question was specifically aimed at the poster talking about car sales in the good old US of A (off topic admittedly)

[T0MMY]

Just thought I'd update this in case anyone with similar issues finds the thread.

We eventually persuaded the dealer to pay for a diagnostic which showed up no fault code history at all which sort of shot down their argument about it being impossible for the fault to have been present when we bought it. The garage who did it decided it probably was the parking sensors confusing the ecu and they're now disconnected.

On the basis that we paid for a car with parking sensors and now have a car without them the dealer refunded £450 which I guess is a good result really. Of course it's quite possible the fault might reappear if it never was the sensors in the first place but fingers crossed!