Captor/pepper spray question
Discussion
On a different thread the question of intruders came up. Whilst the average MOP might batter the offender and (rightfully IMHO) claim self-defence, where would a BIB was confronted in their own home? Could they batter the gimp, or would they be expected to use the same restraint techniques as if on duty? Could they use their baton or pepper spray if it were to hand, or would that be using an offensive weapon?
Just curious! TIA :)
Just curious! TIA :)
We would be prosecuted for using cs spray at home just as anyone would.
As for restraint techniques, well, anyone can use reasonable force, whatever that force is, to restrain an offender, whether it's a baseball bat or marigolds
I know for certain if I found someone in my house going for me or my family, he wouldn't get up for a long long time when I had restrained him.
As for restraint techniques, well, anyone can use reasonable force, whatever that force is, to restrain an offender, whether it's a baseball bat or marigolds
I know for certain if I found someone in my house going for me or my family, he wouldn't get up for a long long time when I had restrained him.
silverback mike said:
We would be prosecuted for using cs spray at home just as anyone would.
As for restraint techniques, well, anyone can use reasonable force, whatever that force is, to restrain an offender, whether it's a baseball bat or marigolds
I know for certain if I found someone in my house going for me or my family, he wouldn't get up for a long long time when I had restrained him.
SB - Yes MLord, he did fall down the stairs. -
CPS -- I undertstand you lived in a bungalow at the time of the incident?.....
superlightr said:
We would be prosecuted for using cs spray at home just as anyone would.
As for restraint techniques, well, anyone can use reasonable force, whatever that force is, to restrain an offender, whether it's a baseball bat or marigolds
I know for certain if I found someone in my house going for me or my family, he wouldn't get up for a long long time when I had restrained him.
SB - Yes MLord, he did fall down the stairs. -
CPS -- I undertstand you lived in a bungalow at the time of the incident?.....
Perhaps a bowl of Bird's Eye Chillies next to the bed might be an idea. On hearing someone down stairs, just crush a few with your fingers. Then just apply to the eyes during a scuffle.
Then you could always use the excuse:
Well MLord, I was laying in bed nibbling on some chillies when I heard someone downstairs.
Then you could always use the excuse:
Well MLord, I was laying in bed nibbling on some chillies when I heard someone downstairs.
Not been issued with any kit yet - probably won't be for a while yet, either (204 days 'til I start - not like I'm desparately keen or anything ).
I expected the CS to be off-limits when off duty. I read a great report this AM about a 74 year old who was being burgled - neighbour turns up, grabs a shovel and proceeds to batter the c
p out of the offender. Judge awards neighbour £100 for stepping in and doing the right thing. 
Give that judge the top job, I say...
). I expected the CS to be off-limits when off duty. I read a great report this AM about a 74 year old who was being burgled - neighbour turns up, grabs a shovel and proceeds to batter the c
p out of the offender. Judge awards neighbour £100 for stepping in and doing the right thing. Give that judge the top job, I say...mungo said:
If one was to grind dry habenero seeds in a pestle and mortar and use something to propel said dust would that be a section 5 firearm also?
Is it the content or the product as a whole that leads to this classification?
Just curious you understand...
That would be classed as an adapted weapon mate
Unlikely.
it is the means of propulsion that might bring it within the ambit of a Firearms Act, otherwise you would need a firearms licence for lead curtain weights.
silverback mike said:
Reasonable force is a thin line.
It can range from speaking to someone to killing them.
As long as there is justification for doing so, then you can stand up infront of any jury with a clear conscience.
Justification !-Now thats the million $ question.
What one person will think as justification another may not. Subjective or objective, heat of the moment or with hindsight.
Thats the problem with 'justification' or 'reasonable' force.
If an intruder comes up your stairs with a screw driver in your home at night what is justified or reasonable force? ;
a) hit them with verbal abuse
b) hit them with racial and verabl abuse.
c) spray them with CS or pepper spray
d) hit them with a baceball bat you happen to keep under your bed
e) stab them with a screwdriver
f) stab them with a bayonet
g) stab/slash them with a sword
h) shoot at them with a legally held shotgun
i) shoot them with an illegally held shotgun or firearm.
Would your view on Justification be different if you had
a) Young Children in the bedrooms
b) Pregnent woman who is in a delicate condition
c) by yourself
d) by yourself but as ex-SAS martial art instructor and super fit
e) are Tony Martin
Remember if you dont scare off this intruder or win this 'fight' what could be the consequences -
you being robbed, you dying, your family being raped, your whole family dying?
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:44
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:45
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:48
I always take my baton and cuffs home because they will get nicked if I leave them at work...
CS... now there is a question - I think so long as its stored correctly then its ok? For regulars this wont happen as they can store it in the relevant cabinet in the station - but for people who have to deploy from home I think they can take it home but the force has to provide relevant cabinet for safe keeping.
CS... now there is a question - I think so long as its stored correctly then its ok? For regulars this wont happen as they can store it in the relevant cabinet in the station - but for people who have to deploy from home I think they can take it home but the force has to provide relevant cabinet for safe keeping.
superlightr said:
Reasonable force is a thin line.
It can range from speaking to someone to killing them.
As long as there is justification for doing so, then you can stand up infront of any jury with a clear conscience.
Justification !-Now thats the million $ question.
What one person will think as justification another may not. Subjective or objective, heat of the moment or with hindsight.
Thats the problem with 'justification' or 'reasonable' force.
If an intruder comes up your stairs with a screw driver in your home at night what is justified or reasonable force? ;
a) hit them with verbal abuse
b) hit them with racial and verabl abuse.
c) spray them with CS or pepper spray
d) hit them with a baceball bat you happen to keep under your bed
e) stab them with a screwdriver
f) stab them with a bayonet
g) stab/slash them with a sword
h) shoot at them with a legally held shotgun
i) shoot them with an illegally held shotgun or firearm.
Would your view on Justification be different if you had
a) Young Children in the bedrooms
b) Pregnent woman who is in a delicate condition
c) by yourself
d) by yourself but as ex-SAS martial art instructor and super fit
e) are Tony Martin
Remember if you dont scare off this intruder or win this 'fight' what could be the consequences -
you being robbed, you dying, your family being raped, your whole family dying?
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:44
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:45
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 14:48
Exactly that superlightr, all cases are different, and what may be reasonable force for one, is not reasonable force for another.
bluesandtwos said:
I always take my baton and cuffs home because they will get nicked if I leave them at work...
CS... now there is a question - I think so long as its stored correctly then its ok? For regulars this wont happen as they can store it in the relevant cabinet in the station - but for people who have to deploy from home I think they can take it home but the force has to provide relevant cabinet for safe keeping.
Yes indeed, regulars have lockable stowage for such things,as do our specials.
Deployed from home, not come across that to be honest, as even our doghandlers keep their bits and bobs at the dog hq from where they are deployed.
forgot to add to the list:
a) hit them with verbal abuse
b) hit them with racial and verabl abuse.
c) spray them with CS or pepper spray
d) hit them with a baceball bat you happen to keep under your bed
e) stab them with a screwdriver
f) stab them with a bayonet
g) stab/slash them with a sword
h) shoot at them with a legally held shotgun
i) shoot them with an illegally held shotgun or firearm.
J) - ALL OF THE ABOVE
not that I could get all of the above under my armoured bed.
>> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 15:00
a) hit them with verbal abuse
b) hit them with racial and verabl abuse.
c) spray them with CS or pepper spray
d) hit them with a baceball bat you happen to keep under your bed
e) stab them with a screwdriver
f) stab them with a bayonet
g) stab/slash them with a sword
h) shoot at them with a legally held shotgun
i) shoot them with an illegally held shotgun or firearm.
J) - ALL OF THE ABOVE
not that I could get all of the above under my armoured bed. >> Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th September 15:00
superlightr said:
a) hit them with verbal abuse
b) hit them with racial and verabl abuse.
c) spray them with CS or pepper spray
d) hit them with a baceball bat you happen to keep under your bed
e) stab them with a screwdriver
f) stab them with a bayonet
g) stab/slash them with a sword
h) shoot at them with a legally held shotgun
i) shoot them with an illegally held shotgun or firearm.
Would your view on Justification be different if you had
a) Young Children in the bedrooms
b) Pregnent woman who is in a delicate condition
c) by yourself
d) by yourself but as ex-SAS martial art instructor and super fit
e) are Tony Martin
They all sound perfectly reasonable to me (except the first 2 as they wouldn't be likely to work), if a scrote has broken in to your house he should lose all rights to claim any defence, he should be, as they say, Fair Game.
Oh and anyone who disagrees with me is just Wrong!.
catso said:
if a scrote has broken in to your house he should lose all rights to claim any defence, he should be, as they say, Fair Game.
Perhaps this could be covered by putting up signs by all entry points to your house stating something along the lines of "By entering this property you agree to become my S&M slave and you are happy and willing for me to use a selection of power tools on you"?
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