Received a parking charge - am I being unreasonable?
Discussion
R6tty said:
Have you got proof of two separate visits? Till receipts would be best but bank details? Going in the shop and pointing out you have this proof, and you suggest they tell the parking company to lay off. It usaully does it.
Just to be a d1ck how does having proof you bought stuff prove your car has been there on 1 separate occasions. The OP could of driven there, bought some stuff, broke down and left car there, then come back in the morning and bought some more stuff while awating recovery.
the-norseman said:
R6tty said:
Have you got proof of two separate visits? Till receipts would be best but bank details? Going in the shop and pointing out you have this proof, and you suggest they tell the parking company to lay off. It usaully does it.
Just to be a d1ck how does having proof you bought stuff prove your car has been there on 1 separate occasions. The OP could of driven there, bought some stuff, broke down and left car there, then come back in the morning and bought some more stuff while awating recovery.
You can't produce undisclosed evidence in court in the hope of a Perry Mason moment.
What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
Horizon really are scum, I work for Tesco and me and others get loads of pcn’s, they even acknowledge on there you are staff, but say it’s your responsibility to update the records.
Even when the managers check the system the correct reg is on there, just the horizon system is rubbish
Even when the managers check the system the correct reg is on there, just the horizon system is rubbish
In answer to the original question, yes the response as you originally stated it would be unreasonable. From their point of view they have you going into the carpark and then leaving, but presumably nothing in the middle so it would be mighty charitable of them to respond to your claim that you left and came back with "oh ok, fair enough".
just send them a screenshot from your doorbell with a timestamp on it... you're absolutely deluded if you think that you're going to be able to charge anything, or 'embarrass' them in court... do you think you and them and a judge are going to sit around watching your ring doorbell footage, you sitting there all smug and the company with their head in the hands like "this is so embarrassing"?
just send them a screenshot from your doorbell with a timestamp on it... you're absolutely deluded if you think that you're going to be able to charge anything, or 'embarrass' them in court... do you think you and them and a judge are going to sit around watching your ring doorbell footage, you sitting there all smug and the company with their head in the hands like "this is so embarrassing"?
I had the same happen at Annandale Water services for two visits on consecutive days. I asked them to check *their* CCTV at a time in between the visits. They wrote it off. There's no reason why you should be responsible for doing the work to prove you didn't do something, if they want to charge you for it the onus is on them to prove you did.
Zeeky said:
You can't produce undisclosed evidence in court in the hope of a Perry Mason moment.
What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
I realise I can’t just whip out undisclosed evidence in court.What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
I have disclosed the evidence already by telling them, in writing (email) I have CCTV and Ring footage of my vehicle, parked on my property, at the times they say it was at Tesco.
They have said they don’t believe me. That seems to be a ‘them’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.
As I have said, I could probably sort this in 5 mins at the customer service desk at Tesco, but part of me is being mischievous and wants to see if they willing to make any small effort whatsoever to review their own footage and images to see that I did not infringe their rules.
The onus seems to be entirely on me to prove to them that I am innocent, and prove to them that their tech is wonky, and I just don’t like that approach or attitude.
Mont Blanc said:
I have disclosed the evidence already by telling them, in writing (email) I have CCTV and Ring footage of my vehicle, parked on my property, at the times they say it was at Tesco.
That is technically correct but you would still need to provde the evidence on request and if you do not do so before proceeedings are commenced then you may be liable for Horizon's costs if you produce it subsequently. In the meantime if you want to be difficult then that will not increase your liability for any of Horizon's potential costs.
If we're in this situation I would be able to check the timing of my movements using Google Maps timeline function. Then I'd write back (inserting correct dates/times).
Dear Sir,
On Monday 8rh I entered the carpark around 8.10am and left around 9.20.
On Tuesday I entered around 10.15 and left around 10.35.
I'm sure if you check your CCTV footage you will be able to confirm this information.
I have no intention of sharing private/personal video footage of me and my family as per your request.
If you wish to pursue this matter any further I shall see you in court whereupon your incompetence will be clearly evident to the magistrate/judge.
Now f
k right off.
Dear Sir,
On Monday 8rh I entered the carpark around 8.10am and left around 9.20.
On Tuesday I entered around 10.15 and left around 10.35.
I'm sure if you check your CCTV footage you will be able to confirm this information.
I have no intention of sharing private/personal video footage of me and my family as per your request.
If you wish to pursue this matter any further I shall see you in court whereupon your incompetence will be clearly evident to the magistrate/judge.
Now f
k right off. Zeeky said:
Mont Blanc said:
I have disclosed the evidence already by telling them, in writing (email) I have CCTV and Ring footage of my vehicle, parked on my property, at the times they say it was at Tesco.
That is technically correct but you would still need to provde the evidence on request and if you do not do so before proceeedings are commenced then you may be liable for Horizon's costs if you produce it subsequently. In the meantime if you want to be difficult then that will not increase your liability for any of Horizon's potential costs.
OP, for your benefit, I did something similar to your proposed reply when I had a similar "double dip" incident, but I went even further. My migraines were quite bad at the time and I did have one on the day the sodding letter arrived, so I really wanted to make them squirm. I decided to see how far I could take it, so I got all my evidence together and replied with an invoice for several hours of work I had to do get the CCTV images from Waitrose showing my 2 separate entries to the shopping centre (Waitrose was just one shops in a small shopping cluster, it wasn't a Waitrose car park so they couldn't do anything about it themselves but they supplied CCTV from their store and it was the first shop so the entrance to the car park was visible on CCTV), charged at a reasonable hourly rate for my profession and standing of £500/hour for ad hoc contract work, plus provably having suffered with migraines for over 20+ years, the stress of a false accusation and dealing with this had led to an acute attack, so there was an added compensation claim for a day's suffering equal to an 8 hour work day at the above rate. My point from the beginning of the letter was that their software and system were faulty, and that was the reason for all these, hence they were the liable party. I didn't "appeal" or do anything else at all, just sent the letter both in print with printed images and by email to whatever email address I could find.
I obviously didn't expect to get any money out of them, but I did receive a reply within a few days cancelling the fine.
Although coherent and structured, what I sent them was basically an unhinged rant. They must've read it and thought that I was an even bigger w
ker than they were, so thought it best to cut their losses... I wish I'd kept the letter I sent, it would've been a good rant to read. a311 said:
I had something similar a while back and got in touch with the supermarket and it was quickly written off.
My sister battled a charge all the way to end, disputed it, paid a fee to one of these companies that fight it for you and was eventually given a date to attend court. The company didn't write it off until 24 hours of the court date (it might even of been the morning of).
Generally these things take time and effort to dispute in the process getting most people's backs up if they are/think they're in the right.
If you now ignore it you'll get multiple letters etc. My wife recently got one when the parking charges weren't enforced on weekends she still needed multiple comms and eventually getting in touch with the land owner before the parking company wrote it off. These have just become another one of modern life in Britain's annoyances.
i had similar a few months ago. The supermarket (Tesco) would do fMy sister battled a charge all the way to end, disputed it, paid a fee to one of these companies that fight it for you and was eventually given a date to attend court. The company didn't write it off until 24 hours of the court date (it might even of been the morning of).
Generally these things take time and effort to dispute in the process getting most people's backs up if they are/think they're in the right.
If you now ignore it you'll get multiple letters etc. My wife recently got one when the parking charges weren't enforced on weekends she still needed multiple comms and eventually getting in touch with the land owner before the parking company wrote it off. These have just become another one of modern life in Britain's annoyances.
k all. I wrote to Horizon stating that my Google Timeline and bank statements showed that I hadn't been anywhere near Tesco that day. They folded.rlg43p said:
If we're in this situation I would be able to check the timing of my movements using Google Maps timeline function. Then I'd write back (inserting correct dates/times).
Dear Sir,
On Monday 8rh I entered the carpark around 8.10am and left around 9.20.
On Tuesday I entered around 10.15 and left around 10.35.
I'm sure if you check your CCTV footage you will be able to confirm this information.
I have no intention of sharing private/personal video footage of me and my family as per your request.
If you wish to pursue this matter any further I shall see you in court whereupon your incompetence will be clearly evident to the magistrate/judge.
Now fk right off.
Dear Sir,
On Monday 8rh I entered the carpark around 8.10am and left around 9.20.
On Tuesday I entered around 10.15 and left around 10.35.
I'm sure if you check your CCTV footage you will be able to confirm this information.
I have no intention of sharing private/personal video footage of me and my family as per your request.
If you wish to pursue this matter any further I shall see you in court whereupon your incompetence will be clearly evident to the magistrate/judge.
Now f
k right off. 
Mont Blanc said:
I just received a parking charge notice, from Horizon parking, for my wife’s car, for our local supermarket car park.
It shows photos of my wife’s car entering the car park at about 9pm on a Thursday evening, and exiting at around 8:30am the next morning, Friday.
They therefore allege that we overstayed the 2 hour limit and owe them £90, or £45 if paid promptly.
The car did indeed enter and leave at those times pictured, but it also left 15 mins after the Thursday entry, and entered 20 mins before the Friday entry…
So it was 2 separate visits yet their cameras/software system has picked the first entry and the last exit.
Sorry if I somehow made that description complex.
I went to the online appeal for Horizon parking, and asked them to cancel the PCN as it was 2 separate visits, said their system is faulty, and informed them that I have CCTV and Ring footage from my house that shows the vehicle movements in line with the entry/exit timings at the car park, but more importantly shows the car parked on our drive when it was apparently left at the supermarket all night long.
They replied, basically saying they didn’t believe me, and that I would have to supply them with the videos from my home CCTV so they can consider my appeal.
Would it be unreasonable of me to reply like this:
“No, I am not wasting any more of my time on this matter. I have told you your system is mistaken or faulty, given you the explanation as to the actual movements of my car, and I will not use my spare time to locate, download, or send my private CCTV footage to you. If you wish to verify my story, you can check the Supermarket car park CCTV yourselves on your own time, or check the other images held by your own camera system at the times I have mentioned. If you decide to persue this matter, I will enjoy attending court, showing my CCTV footage, and listening to you apologise for wasting the courts time, and be questioned over your faulty equipment, and asked how many other motorists you have been falsely accused”
Is that just too much of being a dick, and I should just send them the CCTV footage?
For the record, I am a sucker for obeying parking rules on private land. I always buy tickets as required, follow the rules, and do not overstay.
But for some reason this one has irked me…
Really, sounds to me like you've already wasted some of you time. If you go to court isn't that even more time wasted.It shows photos of my wife’s car entering the car park at about 9pm on a Thursday evening, and exiting at around 8:30am the next morning, Friday.
They therefore allege that we overstayed the 2 hour limit and owe them £90, or £45 if paid promptly.
The car did indeed enter and leave at those times pictured, but it also left 15 mins after the Thursday entry, and entered 20 mins before the Friday entry…
So it was 2 separate visits yet their cameras/software system has picked the first entry and the last exit.
Sorry if I somehow made that description complex.
I went to the online appeal for Horizon parking, and asked them to cancel the PCN as it was 2 separate visits, said their system is faulty, and informed them that I have CCTV and Ring footage from my house that shows the vehicle movements in line with the entry/exit timings at the car park, but more importantly shows the car parked on our drive when it was apparently left at the supermarket all night long.
They replied, basically saying they didn’t believe me, and that I would have to supply them with the videos from my home CCTV so they can consider my appeal.
Would it be unreasonable of me to reply like this:
“No, I am not wasting any more of my time on this matter. I have told you your system is mistaken or faulty, given you the explanation as to the actual movements of my car, and I will not use my spare time to locate, download, or send my private CCTV footage to you. If you wish to verify my story, you can check the Supermarket car park CCTV yourselves on your own time, or check the other images held by your own camera system at the times I have mentioned. If you decide to persue this matter, I will enjoy attending court, showing my CCTV footage, and listening to you apologise for wasting the courts time, and be questioned over your faulty equipment, and asked how many other motorists you have been falsely accused”
Is that just too much of being a dick, and I should just send them the CCTV footage?
For the record, I am a sucker for obeying parking rules on private land. I always buy tickets as required, follow the rules, and do not overstay.
But for some reason this one has irked me…
Call me old fashioned, I'd just want to deal with it in the shortest, easiest way possible. Send screenshots/short clips from the CCTV for the relevant times.
The people at the parking company and/or supermarket are being paid to process the matter and don't care about having their time 'wasted'. Meanwhile you're not being paid for your time or raised blood pressure...
If you're really upset, once you've finished sorting the parking matter, politely raise it with the supermarket explaining you're a concerned regular customer, highlight it might be happening to other regulars, putting them off and, in this instance, some kind of voucher in recognition of the inconvenience might prevent you taking your custom elsewhere in future.
The people at the parking company and/or supermarket are being paid to process the matter and don't care about having their time 'wasted'. Meanwhile you're not being paid for your time or raised blood pressure...
If you're really upset, once you've finished sorting the parking matter, politely raise it with the supermarket explaining you're a concerned regular customer, highlight it might be happening to other regulars, putting them off and, in this instance, some kind of voucher in recognition of the inconvenience might prevent you taking your custom elsewhere in future.
This ^^^^^
Look at it another way.
You are innocent until proven guilty. Horizon through their flawed ANPR think they have proof of your guilt. They are prepared to pursue you for a charge based on their flawed evidence.
You can quickly and easily prove your innocence. Do it.
And move on with your life!
Look at it another way.
You are innocent until proven guilty. Horizon through their flawed ANPR think they have proof of your guilt. They are prepared to pursue you for a charge based on their flawed evidence.
You can quickly and easily prove your innocence. Do it.
And move on with your life!
Wot the previous two posters said. While it is cathartic to envisage Alan Bates v the Post Office scenarios, where the wronged little guy doggedly pursues the faceless evil corporations, ultimately resulting in his absolution and their public humiliation, this ain't that. This won't be made into a Netflix documentary one day, it's just one of the arseaches of modern life. You've got the evidence to make it go away, so unless you do actually have time to burn, just make it go away. By all means write a stiffly worded letter to accompany the evidence you send making your displeasure known but forget about £100 per hour invoices, that'll just be filed in the bin.
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