Driving test question - complaint?
Discussion
Caddyshack said:
skwdenyer said:
Simpo Two said:
Caddyshack said:
It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.
That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you 
It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.
The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!
I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.
Any car can overtake a 10mph bike, you would only need 20mph to whip past.
Changing test centres at this stage is about their confidence in the system, not about finding an "easier" one (all the local centres have pretty similar pass/fail stats per the DVSA).
Having a parent sit in on the next test might be a good call - again, for the sense of potential fairness more than anything else. Going into any test feeling like the system is stacked against you (rightly or wrongly) is not a path to success.
Cmakka23 said:
Instructor here. You can complain about the conduct of the test, this would never change the result. The best that can happen is you could possibly get a free re-test if it was proven the test wasn't conducted correctly.
As said above, what we get told after a fail is rarely what happened.
Without being there yourself and seeing it there is little point at all in complaining. It will always fall in the Examiners favour.
My hinest advice would be to chalk it up to experience and get another one booked.
Thanks. Do you have any view on the question of whether the learner should provide some commentary ("I'm not overtaking because...") and/or responding to the examiner urging them to overtake ("I can't do that without leaving the cyclist too little space and/or impinging on oncoming traffic")?As said above, what we get told after a fail is rarely what happened.
Without being there yourself and seeing it there is little point at all in complaining. It will always fall in the Examiners favour.
My hinest advice would be to chalk it up to experience and get another one booked.
After the first test (this was the second) in which the learner claimed (I emphasise that word) that when they were looking left at the failure roundabout all they saw the entire time was the examiner's head, it was discussed that they might (if it happened like that on a subsequent test) wish to say something like "I'm checking my left mirror" - but I don't know whether that's more likely to wind up the examiner?
I'm not personally very much help on the coping with a driving test failure front, as I passed first time - and overall I'd say this learner is far more competent on the road than I was at the same age
skwdenyer said:
..........
I'm not personally very much help on the coping with a driving test failure front, as I passed first time - and overall I'd say this learner is far more competent on the road than I was at the same age
Me too. I passed first time in October 1970 aged 17, after 10 lessons, and wrote the car off up the back of a Ferrari 40 days later. I'm not personally very much help on the coping with a driving test failure front, as I passed first time - and overall I'd say this learner is far more competent on the road than I was at the same age
I lacked almost all of the skills necessary to drive safely.
I am very much in favour of the more rigorous test these days.
skwdenyer said:
Caddyshack said:
skwdenyer said:
Simpo Two said:
Caddyshack said:
It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.
That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.
The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!
I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.
Any car can overtake a 10mph bike, you would only need 20mph to whip past.
Changing test centres at this stage is about their confidence in the system, not about finding an "easier" one (all the local centres have pretty similar pass/fail stats per the DVSA).
Having a parent sit in on the next test might be a good call - again, for the sense of potential fairness more than anything else. Going into any test feeling like the system is stacked against you (rightly or wrongly) is not a path to success.
My friend failed his bike test 3 or more times after being a driver for nearly 30 yrs. I do not class him as a good or confident driver.
He explained the ridiculous fail points to me on silly technicalities, the fails sounded like vicitmisation or as if the examiners had colluded following his first fail protests. He ended up with the final test being with the head examiner following his strong complaints.
I took my test with the same training company and same test centres and got on really well with one of the instructors, he explained the reasons for my friend failing and they seemed totally fair and I could fully understand it once I had been told a more impartial version of events.
vaud said:
over_the_hill said:
Turning into Asda is a fail full stop.
It's Grantham, it's practically their Taj Mahal.It's where the A52 (Stoke on Trent to Skegness) approaches from the opposite direction to the learners and does a 270 degree turn.
So it's always busy, with lots going on and lots to think about. Hence the warning before the test.
Asda is on your sharp left coming the way the learners do, so if you take the "Asda only" lane you end up doing a lane change on the roundabout to avoid ending up in Asda's car park. I suspect that's the reason for the fails.
And yes, I'm not a fan of Grantham either.
QBee said:
I now live 15 miles north of there and know the roundabout well.
It's where the A52 (Stoke on Trent to Skegness) approaches from the opposite direction to the learners and does a 270 degree turn.
So it's always busy, with lots going on and lots to think about. Hence the warning before the test.
Asda is on your sharp left coming the way the learners do, so if you take the "Asda only" lane you end up doing a lane change on the roundabout to avoid ending up in Asda's car park. I suspect that's the reason for the fails.
And yes, I'm not a fan of Grantham either.
My inlaws live between Grantham and Newark; I much prefer Newark.It's where the A52 (Stoke on Trent to Skegness) approaches from the opposite direction to the learners and does a 270 degree turn.
So it's always busy, with lots going on and lots to think about. Hence the warning before the test.
Asda is on your sharp left coming the way the learners do, so if you take the "Asda only" lane you end up doing a lane change on the roundabout to avoid ending up in Asda's car park. I suspect that's the reason for the fails.
And yes, I'm not a fan of Grantham either.
RazerSauber said:
Even if you did complain, and that complaint was successful, you'd only receive a free re-test. There's not a lot else you can do. Chalk it up to a bad experience. I failed my first driving test for driving through an amber light. Just got on with it and booked again. Further driving tuition can't hurt.
This. Have previously worked for the then Driving Standards Agency this will be the outcome if your complaint is upheld.Thanks
Rob
vaud said:
My inlaws live between Grantham and Newark; I much prefer Newark.
My home town is about 6 miles away from Newark, and IMO it's a hateful place. Overrun by caravan dwelling types (Tolney Lane site, where Fred Barras and his cousin [Tony Martin] live(d) The former still swaggers around the town like he's some sort of ganster.Where abouts between the 2 towns, if you're happy to state online?
Fermit said:
vaud said:
My inlaws live between Grantham and Newark; I much prefer Newark.
My home town is about 6 miles away from Newark, and IMO it's a hateful place. Overrun by caravan dwelling types (Tolney Lane site, where Fred Barras and his cousin [Tony Martin] live(d) The former still swaggers around the town like he's some sort of ganster.Where abouts between the 2 towns, if you're happy to state online?
Caddyshack said:
Isn’t the former, Fred, who is dead and it’s the latter Tony that would be swaggering about?
Tony Martin in the [for a reminder of the big news name] was the farmer who shot Fred. His cousin who lives and swaggers about is Brendon Fearon. Poor use of grammar etc, oops. 
Fermit said:
My home town is about 6 miles away from Newark, and IMO it's a hateful place. Overrun by caravan dwelling types (Tolney Lane site, where Fred Barras and his cousin [Tony Martin] live(d) The former still swaggers around the town like he's some sort of ganster.
Where abouts between the 2 towns, if you're happy to state online?
Bottesford (so roughly between the two)Where abouts between the 2 towns, if you're happy to state online?
Fermit said:
Caddyshack said:
Isn’t the former, Fred, who is dead and it’s the latter Tony that would be swaggering about?
Tony Martin in the [for a reminder of the big news name] was the farmer who shot Fred. His cousin who lives and swaggers about is Brendon Fearon. Poor use of grammar etc, oops. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff