Crime involving Firearms......still on the up????
Discussion
Just wondered if any of our BIB or Legal PH'ers wanted to make any comment on the alarming continued rise in the above.
IMO it has got even worse since the firearms laws were changed and fullbore weapons were made illegal.
Did the Government really think it would make that much of a difference? How many crims did they think would have gone through all the paperwork/checks and procedures (not least the costs) of obtaining firearms certificates and the weapons themselves, only to then go and turn over the local convenience store??
>> Edited by Cerby4.5 on Wednesday 14th September 16:07
>> Edited by Cerby4.5 on Wednesday 14th September 16:11
IMO it has got even worse since the firearms laws were changed and fullbore weapons were made illegal.
Did the Government really think it would make that much of a difference? How many crims did they think would have gone through all the paperwork/checks and procedures (not least the costs) of obtaining firearms certificates and the weapons themselves, only to then go and turn over the local convenience store??
>> Edited by Cerby4.5 on Wednesday 14th September 16:07
>> Edited by Cerby4.5 on Wednesday 14th September 16:11
Cerby4.5 said:
Just wondered if any of our BIB or Legal PH'ers wanted to make any comment on the alarming continued rise in the above.
IMO it has got even worse since the firearms laws were changed and fullbore weapons were made illegal.
Did the Government really think it would make that much of a difference? How many crims did they think would have gone through all the paperwork/checks and procedures (not least the costs) of obtaining firearms certificates and the weapons themselves, only to then go and turn over the local convenience store??
It has been argued that without the ban, things could be even worse?? (not that I necessarily subscribe to that school of thought).
My BIB mates maintain that the reason gun crime is not as widespread as it could be is that the scrotes are of the belief that if they use a gun, the chances of getting caught is higher.
bga said:
My BIB mates maintain that the reason gun crime is not as widespread as it could be is that the scrotes are of the belief that if they use a gun, the chances of getting caught is higher.
More like they are plastic gansters that wouldnt have the minerals to pull the trigger even if they could find someone to buy one from.
bga said:
It has been argued that without the ban, things could be even worse??
If that were true then where I live (Bisley - one of the largest civilian shooting ranges in the UK) would be like a wild west town with full bore target shooters holding up the local post office daily, however this is obviously not the case, infact I can't remember a gun related crime here despite virtually everyone staying here owning some scary looking firepower.
Figures relating to firearms crime in this country really are the biggest load of horsesh*t you're ever likely to hear, and used for all sorts of justification by those who know better; they refer to every incident involving anything perceived at the time of the incident to be a firearm...hence, when you hear 'there were 200 firearms incidents in London last week' (or whatever), what they really mean is 'there were 101 airsoft 'gun' incidents, 52 replica gun incidents, 35 airgun incidents, 10 incidents of children playing with cap guns that looked a little bit too realistic for some numpty who called his local nick who promptly decided to despatch the kevlar cowboys as they weren't doing anything else, 1 incident involving a chair leg in a plastic bag, and 1 incident involving a real firearm'.
The increase in 'firearms incidents' will then be used to promote even tougher gun control laws, until no law abiding citizens are allowed to own guns. Remember - politicians don't like their peasants armed.
The increase in 'firearms incidents' will then be used to promote even tougher gun control laws, until no law abiding citizens are allowed to own guns. Remember - politicians don't like their peasants armed.
Wasn't it the Canadians who tried messing around with figures to justify Gun Control laws. ANY incident with a gun in the vicinitywas recorded as a gun crime. For example any Suicide was recorded as a gun crime if a firearm was in the house despite the use of Pills or noose as the means of departure. When this was revealed it caused a hell of a stink!!
Plotloss said:
My BIB mates maintain that the reason gun crime is not as widespread as it could be is that the scrotes are of the belief that if they use a gun, the chances of getting caught is higher.
More like they are plastic gansters that wouldnt have the minerals to pull the trigger even if they could find someone to buy one from.
Exactly. Too scared of the act or the concequence to do anything about it.
dan_the_man said:
It has been argued that without the ban, things could be even worse??
If that were true then where I live (Bisley - one of the largest civilian shooting ranges in the UK) would be like a wild west town with full bore target shooters holding up the local post office daily, however this is obviously not the case, infact I can't remember a gun related crime here despite virtually everyone staying here owning some scary looking firepower.
I was chatting with a reasonably senior police officer about it a while ago. He eloquently argued it both ways, & apparently opinion was split whether the number of handguns in ownership meant it was more likely that at least some would go from legal to criminal ownership. He then said that in his opinion that in some cases it was cultural forces (hence operation Trident) & the ease of obtaining weapons illegaly for those who wanted them that was the main driver.
I forget the number of times as a kid that I used to have a shotgun waved in my face by an irate farmer when my mates used to wander through their fields. I suppose that would make it a gun crime now
It can't be too bad really, I have survived 14 months in The wild west that is Nottingham without being shot or even hearing anything
Er, the increase in gun crime was a pretty obvious consequence of banning legal ownership. As soon as something is banned, it usually becomes more desirable. When guns were available with a permit, few bothered to get licenses, but were aware they were legal and just couldn't be bothered as the sport was a bit nerdy (really, buying high power guns just to shoot at paper targets - it's not really that much fun on a regular basis, unless you're good at it and compete in tournaments perhaps). Once they were banned, they gained a fashionable status.
Take CB radios in the 1980's - around 500,000 people were mucking around with illegal radios, moment the Government legalised them, no one wanted them anymore!
Next people will be saying that the increase in terror and instability in Iraq along with increased terrorist activity in Europe is not an incredibly obvious consequence of UK/US military action in Iraq. Wait - they are saying that...
Take CB radios in the 1980's - around 500,000 people were mucking around with illegal radios, moment the Government legalised them, no one wanted them anymore!
Next people will be saying that the increase in terror and instability in Iraq along with increased terrorist activity in Europe is not an incredibly obvious consequence of UK/US military action in Iraq. Wait - they are saying that...
Cerby4.5 said:
IMO it has got even worse since the firearms laws were changed and fullbore weapons were made illegal.
Absolutely. The number of legally held firearms used in crime was always tiny, so all the handgun ban has done is make law abiding people who used to shoot legally very pi$$ed off. I'd heard for many years that illegal guns were easy to get if you knew/wanted to get them, so little change there.
Cerby4.5 said:
Did the Government really think it would make that much of a difference?
Of course they didn't - the ban was a knee jerk reaction to placate the majority who knew nothing about the sport of handgun shooting and to penalise a minority who had little influence through the ballot box (unlike the NRA in the States).
Cerby4.5 said:
How many crims did they think would have gone through all the paperwork/checks and procedures (not least the costs) of obtaining firearms certificates and the weapons themselves, only to then go and turn over the local convenience store??
Clearly no-one in their right mind! However, would a crim having chosen to go through the checking process still be issued with a FAC.....provided he was in the funny handshake brigade? I heard a rumour that this was how Hamilton managed to hang onto his FAC despite several complaints to the police about his behaviour........allegedly.....
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder if it had been areal one I could have expected a better service then ???
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=206896
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=206896
Strange how despite the freedom of information thingy, Hamilton's case records are held under a 100 year secrecy clause (could be wrong on the time period).
You may still posses firearms, including handguns, on certificate if "good cause" can be proven.
Full bore rifles are still legal except for semi-automatics in calibres larger than .22mag rimfire.
You may still posses firearms, including handguns, on certificate if "good cause" can be proven.
Full bore rifles are still legal except for semi-automatics in calibres larger than .22mag rimfire.
Consider the possibility that the Firearms Acts might demonstrate an intention to remove the potential for Joe and Joanna Public to rise up against oppressive government.
Nicolo Machiavelli summed it up best, when he said: "Government consists in nothing else but so controlling subjects that they shall neither be able to, nor have cause to do it harm."
Streaky
Nicolo Machiavelli summed it up best, when he said: "Government consists in nothing else but so controlling subjects that they shall neither be able to, nor have cause to do it harm."
Streaky
Bah, big sticks with nails in them will do the job!
Mind you, the government may well ban DIY, no nails or planks of wood without a certificate!
Hehe, I think the public will revolt before it gets that bad it will matter. I can't see Bliar or anyone standing up against a good old Brit revolt
Dave
Mind you, the government may well ban DIY, no nails or planks of wood without a certificate!
Hehe, I think the public will revolt before it gets that bad it will matter. I can't see Bliar or anyone standing up against a good old Brit revolt
Dave
I was having a chat to 2 armed BiB a couple of weeks ago. They had come round to collect to old shotguns of my fathers we'd decided to hand in (I was going to go down to the cop shop but didn't fancy walking in with a 12 bore under one arm and a 410 under the other - I've seen what happens to guys with chair legs 
). They asked me why we had decided to hand the guns in and I told them that we daren't use them in case someone sees us and we get a visit from the BiB. They said that they spend a large part of their time being called to farms where people are out shooting legally and some busy body phones the cops! I assume that each of these calls will be put down as a firearms incident.... In fact they had just been to a farm to deal with two guys shooting rabbits with legally held rifles. They looked quite shocked when two fully kitted out armed coppers hoved into view!
Does any of this stop illegal gun ownership? Of course not, but it fulfills labours policy of being seen to do something. Speed cameras are another classic example of ineffectual policy designed to display positive action
). They asked me why we had decided to hand the guns in and I told them that we daren't use them in case someone sees us and we get a visit from the BiB. They said that they spend a large part of their time being called to farms where people are out shooting legally and some busy body phones the cops! I assume that each of these calls will be put down as a firearms incident.... In fact they had just been to a farm to deal with two guys shooting rabbits with legally held rifles. They looked quite shocked when two fully kitted out armed coppers hoved into view! Does any of this stop illegal gun ownership? Of course not, but it fulfills labours policy of being seen to do something. Speed cameras are another classic example of ineffectual policy designed to display positive action
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