Wednesday 12th October 2005

Blanket 30mph called for

Pressure group wants standard limit in all villages

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Is a blanket limit the right way to go?

Campaigners want the speed limit in all villages to be 30mph, irrespective of circumstances or road layout -- or even, apparently, whether the local residents wanted it or not, according to a BBC story.

The Campaign to Protect Rural England (CPRE) mounted a survey and found that the speed limit was 60mph in many villages, and wants to see the Road Safety Bill, which is going through Parliament at the moment, amended to add a national default 30mph speed limit in villages.

The CPRE said this would be cheaper than doing it on a case-by-case basis.

We're sure that the CPRE knows more about what's in those local residents' best interests than they do. However, we're not sure how you'd define a village. And we're surely not sure that perpetuating the idea of blanket speed limits irrespective of circumstances sends the right message to anyone.

• BBC story

[stig]

I think S.Oxfordshire must be their HQ then as there seems to be blanket 30mph limits in all the villages round our way - and the damn roads in between them :(

[Tripps]

Back where I'm originally from in the villages north of Leicester there are numerous villages which are made up of half a dozen houses and maybe a pub on one side of the road, more of a hamlet than a village, so would a 30mph limit be applied to these?

They already have of 40 or sometimes 50, which to me seems quite acceptable, as no one needs to cross the road, so reducing the limit wouldn't benefit safety as it would likely be ignored anyway due to the perceived idea there is no reason to slow down further.

Typical lack of thought applying blank speed limit again...

[dinkus]

Obviously speed is the only killer on the roads, so 30mph speed limits will solve all of our problems.

I think that actually, service areas would probably classify as villages as well, so we'd need to put a 30mph limit on all of the motorways. Then nobody would get into any kind of accidents at all and could happily use their phone while changing lanes and steering with their knees.

When will these idiots learn that accidents are caused by bad driving, not just speeding.

[MarkoTVR]

I think it needs a proper review, rather than just a blanket approach. I think there are many speed limits in the UK which are totally unnecessary (i.e. too low), but I've seen quite a few places where it was NSL and really didn't feel like it should have been, either due to visibility or something like road width. Many such places have been villages out in the styx somewhere, and despite the potential lack of traffic and pedestrians, so really should have a lower limit. If we don't expect much traffic there, there a good chance the residents won't either....and that's when people DO just walk out or pull out without thinking.

Having said that, as soon as there is even the slightest hint of open road, it should go back up to NSL as there is no need for a reduced limit after that as alluded to in Stig's comment above where open roads linking villages are left at 30, which they shouldn't be.

>> Edited by MarkoTVR on Wednesday 12th October 12:15

[chrisgr31]

Depends on the definition of a village I suppose. Its not unlike the procedure in France is it where there is a blanket limit in all villages?

However in return I think all roads between villages should be derestricted.

[NormanD]

Looks like back to the man walking in front with the red flag.

[lucozade]

Seems to make a lot of common sense that !

[Andrewn]

I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits.

[turbo tim]

The CPRE in the article said:

this would be cheaper than doing it on a case-by-case basis

Good observation CPRE.

So would making EVERY road in the UK a 30mph limit. Why not do that??






whoops, better not give them ideas

[tork@tiv]

I'm sure that these guys mean well but their argument is seriously flawed .

Speed limits that are inappropriate for the conditions are almost universally ignored. That's human nature. Such limits are unenforcable because they are unreasonable. The majority who are safe and sensible drivers will feel that bit more opressed and that bit less likely to observe speed limits generally. The lunatics will still be lunatics . Road safety will not be advanced.

I forsee many more revenue scameras employed ostensibly to force drivers to observe inapproriate limits and by the way (you guessed it) raising revenue.

What is needed is a consistent and well thought out system of setting speed limits according to road type and local conditions. Of course that will never happen.

[tork@tiv]

MarkoTVR said:

I think it needs a proper review, rather than just a blanket approach. I think there are many speed limits in the UK which are totally unnecessary (i.e. too low), but I've seen quite a few places where it was NSL and really didn't feel like it should have been, either due to visibility or something like road width. Many such places have been villages out in the styx somewhere, and despite the potential lack of traffic and pedestrians, so really should have a lower limit. If we don't expect much traffic there, there a good chance the residents won't either....and that's when people DO just walk out or pull out without thinking. Having said that, as soon as there is even the slightest hint of open road, it should go back up to NSL as there is no need for a reduced limit after that as alluded to in Stig's comment above where open roads linking villages are left at 30, which they shouldn't be. >> Edited by MarkoTVR on Wednesday 12th October 12:15

Absolutely!

[tork@tiv]

Andrewn said:

I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits.

The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph.

[jesprit]

tork@tiv said:

Andrewn said: I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits. The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph.

Only if you pass through a 30mph sign.

[smeggy]

[alfaman]

stig said:

I think S.Oxfordshire must be their HQ then as there seems to be blanket 30mph limits in all the villages round our way - and the damn roads in between them

Oxfordshire speed limits defy common sense :

Fast , straight A roads with 40 or 50mph limits (A44) - then narrow twisty single track lanes with NSL !! (where 30 or 40 may be more appropriate )

but I guess there is more revenue in speed camming the A44.

[alfaman]

jesprit said:

tork@tiv said: Andrewn said: I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits. The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph. dont think so .... dont think signs are needed as 30 is "default" with street lighting. Only if you pass through a 30mph sign.

[james_j]

This will make speed limits even less respected.

[tork@tiv]

alfaman said:

jesprit said: tork@tiv said: Andrewn said: I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits. The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph. dont think so .... dont think signs are needed as 30 is "default" with street lighting. Only if you pass through a 30mph sign.

Quite right, street lighting means 30 mph unless there are signs stating otherwise.

[jesprit]

tork@tiv said:

alfaman said: jesprit said: tork@tiv said: Andrewn said: I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits. The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph. dont think so .... dont think signs are needed as 30 is "default" with street lighting. Only if you pass through a 30mph sign. Quite right, street lighting means 30 mph unless there are signs stating otherwise.

You must be thinking about repeater signs - these are not necessary in 30mph zones and on motorways. A new speed limit HAS to have a sign telling you of the new limit in that zone. You can't be assumed to know the distance between street lights (185 yards in the case of a 30mph zone) - that's just plain bonkers.

[7db]

jesprit said:

tork@tiv said: Andrewn said: I have seen it done in several locations where rather stealthily the local authority installs street lighting, residents don't usually object & the presence of the lights automatically reduces the speed limits. The presence of street lighting reduces the limit to 30mph. Only if you pass through a 30mph sign.

Not strictly true. No signage is required in law for restricted roads -- although the LA (or Secretary of State) often choose to erect 30 limit signs at the start of them for clarity and to improve compliance. Repeaters are prohibited on restricted roads.

A restricted road is one that:-
i) Has a system of streetlighting no more than 200 yrds apart and
ii) Has not been de-restricted by order.

It also includes unlit roads which have been restriced by order. (rare)

A system of streetlighting includes normal streetlights and anything else that illuminates the carriageway.