are some people REALLY terrified?
Discussion
trax said:
I am noticing this a lot now, there seems to be a large amount of vehicles on the motorway, who travel at 50mph, and not just old codgers in old cars either. The danger these cause to other motorists traveling at the speed limit is unreal.
Traveling below 55mph in a car on a motorway should come with 3 points and a £60 fine.
Danger! what danger", if a motorist cant judge that the car in front is going slower than he is, then he is a danger to himself, not they to him, oh silly me I forgot all contributors to this site are the best drivers in the world.
trax said:The highway code says 'On the motorway you should drive at a steady cruising speed which you and your vehicle can handle safely and is within the speed limit'
I am noticing this a lot now, there seems to be a large amount of vehicles on the motorway, who travel at 50mph, and not just old codgers in old cars either. The danger these cause to other motorists traveling at the speed limit is unreal.
Traveling below 55mph in a car on a motorway should come with 3 points and a £60 fine.
Until they chose to change the highway code (above) driving at 55 is within the context of the highway code.
There are probably far more who choose to EXCEED the NSL than those who choose to drive slower.
Dont take this personally, but this site in general does seem to be knocking every other driver on the road except themselves, remember that old sying
"Anyone who drives faster than me is a bloody idiot, anyone who drives slower than me shouldnt be on the bloody road"
Heres a guy doing 60 or 55 whatever, inside lane, whats the problem for christ sake.
And whats all this about causing danger to others?
Good morning Vipers.
If you read my original post you'll notice that I am not passing judgement, just making an observation.
You can drive at 30MPH on a motorway if you wish quite legally, though I wouldn't recomment it.
in the real world, the safest speed to travel on a motorway is the same speed as everyone else. danger, as far as I can see, increases as speed differences between vehicles increase. From that
we see that crawling along at 45 MPH on a busy motorway is dangerous as you are travelling at a much different speed to a large number of other vehicles, and driving at 120 MPH on an empty motorway is quite safe as there's no one else to hit!
If you read my original post you'll notice that I am not passing judgement, just making an observation.
You can drive at 30MPH on a motorway if you wish quite legally, though I wouldn't recomment it.
in the real world, the safest speed to travel on a motorway is the same speed as everyone else. danger, as far as I can see, increases as speed differences between vehicles increase. From that
we see that crawling along at 45 MPH on a busy motorway is dangerous as you are travelling at a much different speed to a large number of other vehicles, and driving at 120 MPH on an empty motorway is quite safe as there's no one else to hit!
Problem is when conditions suggest maybe going 50mph is a maximum, yet the odd idiot in lane three is going 80mph in pishing rain!
Everyone does it. Was proper belting down with rain on the M62 last night. Got on, sat in lane 1 as my exit is only 3 miles up the road, sat behind an artic at 55mph ish, lots of spray, and would be easy to loose control as lots of standing water.
Truck behind comes charging up and into lane 2, gets alongside me and realises that the spray the artic is putting up means he can't see at all, so he serves in lane 2 in a panic, then slow down and sits in back behind me.
Nothing wrong with driving slowly and safely imho, I'm happy in with the trucks most of the time if it's busy since you only get stressed in lane 2 and 3, or get pushed along at speeds above 70mph, which is inefficient over a distance really.
I just don't see the rush on a motorway really. As long as your not causing an obstruction, and your going a decent speed for the conditions, fair enough imho.
But again, scared of driving is a totally different thing. THEY are a problem as they react oddly to situations they don't expect... But just a normal driver choosing to go slowly for their own reasons... nowt wrong with that.
Dave
Everyone does it. Was proper belting down with rain on the M62 last night. Got on, sat in lane 1 as my exit is only 3 miles up the road, sat behind an artic at 55mph ish, lots of spray, and would be easy to loose control as lots of standing water.
Truck behind comes charging up and into lane 2, gets alongside me and realises that the spray the artic is putting up means he can't see at all, so he serves in lane 2 in a panic, then slow down and sits in back behind me.
Nothing wrong with driving slowly and safely imho, I'm happy in with the trucks most of the time if it's busy since you only get stressed in lane 2 and 3, or get pushed along at speeds above 70mph, which is inefficient over a distance really.
I just don't see the rush on a motorway really. As long as your not causing an obstruction, and your going a decent speed for the conditions, fair enough imho.
But again, scared of driving is a totally different thing. THEY are a problem as they react oddly to situations they don't expect... But just a normal driver choosing to go slowly for their own reasons... nowt wrong with that.
Dave
Vipers said:
...for christ sake lads give the slower driver a break for once
Driving slower than Class-1's on a M-way causes congestion and increases the risk on the road as the HGV's have to pull out into the middle (outside) lane to overtake more frequently.
If the conditions permit, then I don't see there's any excuse for doing less than 55 - it's NOT that quick, a driver would actually be safer themselves, and to other road users, by driving quicker (less speed differential). And they'd reduce congestion.
So while they shouldn't be fined, they should be educated and trained - that level of fear is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous to other road users!
havoc said:
...for christ sake lads give the slower driver a break for once
Driving slower than Class-1's on a M-way causes congestion and increases the risk on the road as the HGV's have to pull out into the middle (outside) lane to overtake more frequently.
If the conditions permit, then I don't see there's any excuse for doing less than 55 - it's NOT that quick, a driver would actually be safer themselves, and to other road users, by driving quicker (less speed differential). And they'd reduce congestion.
So while they shouldn't be fined, they should be educated and trained - that level of fear is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous to other road users!
I can only say personally that I see loads of motorisst exceeding the NSL, by quite a lot, but very few actually doing 55, so they are a rare breed anyway, and if they choose to do 55, I really cant see the problem, happy motoring chaps.
havoc said:
If the conditions permit, then I don't see there's any excuse for doing less than 55 - it's NOT that quick, a driver would actually be safer themselves, and to other road users, by driving quicker (less speed differential). And they'd reduce congestion.
So while they shouldn't be fined, they should be educated and trained - that level of fear is unhealthy, and potentially dangerous to other road users!
Well said, havoc. Most cars manufactured during the last twenty years or more (which must account for over 95% of cars on the road) are (or were) designed and manufactured in such a way that they can safely be driven at a speed far in excess of the NSL. If there are drivers of such vehicles out there who do not feel comfortable at speeds approaching the NSL then I would question whether they are driving safely.
Vipers said:
Well.......... 70 is the MAXIMUM, dont mean you have to do 70,
70 is the legal maximum in the UK since about 1965, but has been widely ignored for many years now.
Vipers said:
50 is better for fuel consumption,
No.
Speed doesn't affect fuel consumption [ much].
For example: I get 25 mpg at anything up to 130 mph on the German autobahn, and I get 27 mpg at anything up to 90 mph on UK roads.
It is *acceleration* that kills fuel consumption, not top speed. See Mr I. Newton's laws of motion circa AD 1600 taught to every GCSE physics student.
Vipers said:
and to be honest, is a car doing 50 any worse than the idiots who do a ton?.
Usually yes.
50 mph is a very slow speed for a car on UK motorway. Even lorries go faster than that. It is the province of the hat wearer and the folks who don't care about time.
Folks doing 100 mph, bless their cotton socks, are *usually* watching what they are doing.
Vipers said:
They upset lorry drivers......we cant all be Aryton Senna look alikes can we, for christ sake lads give the slower driver a break for once
Let's leave 1965 behind, shall we ?
These are the days of 130 mph MPVs and 150 mph Ford Mondeos.
I wouldn't regard 100 mph as fast - about 90+% of all cars in UK today are capable of faster speeds.
But seriously, provided the 50 mph club stay in lane 1, and don't hang about in lanes 2, 3 or 4 I've got no problem with them.
GreenV8S said:
But engine efficiency is probably not constant.
Thermal efficiency increases with wider throttle openings, but at higher RPM there are more frictional losses, so I would suspect the change in engine efficiency is a much smaller effect than power requirements due to wind resistenace
jazzyjeff said:You are joking, aren't you? There is no overall minimum speed limit on motorways (or other roads) in the UK ... unless specifically indicated (and there are precious few of those). Of course, if you were driving in a large "convoy" of vehicles on the M4 around Swindon the police might consider there was a minimum speed that you should maintain so as not to make it too obvious that you were making a point about scameras!
So is 55mph the minimum speed on a motorway under the Highway Code?
I thought it was 45mph?? (please clarify someone).
Streaky
streaky said:
So is 55mph the minimum speed on a motorway under the Highway Code?
I thought it was 45mph?? (please clarify someone).
You are joking, aren't you? There is no overall minimum speed limit on motorways (or other roads) in the UK ... unless specifically indicated (and there are precious few of those). Of course, if you were driving in a large "convoy" of vehicles on the M4 around Swindon the police might consider there was a minimum speed that you should maintain so as not to make it too obvious that you were making a point about scameras!
Streaky
well there is a rule and for the life of me I can never remember the figure (~20mph) that if one's vehicle cannot maintain this speed then one should have an escort vehicle.
As far as I understnd it the vehicle must be capable of some minimum speed (is it 20 mph? I would have guessed more than that) but there's no requirement that you do actually keep above this minimum speed, except for the rare places where there is a minimum speed limit posted. I suspect if you drove extremely slowly for no good reason you might be accused of driving without due care and attention or something.
Guess I openned a can of worms with the prosecute drivers under 55mph.
It was not meant to be taken literaly, but as an opinion of the people that do this, are a far more danger to safety than people who travel at 15mph above the limit, and I thought the police and safety partnerships were interested in safety.
What worries me, is that I see a lot of people driving very slow, forcing lorries to have to overtake, which is unecessary. It isnt just the old people in old cars who are doing this. I blame some of it on the whole speed kills message, they probably think they are perfectly safe plodding along at 50mph or less.
I have often set the cruise control at 70mph, and been very worried at the speed I fly past these people, especially as the lorries often get slowed down by them, then have to pull out (worst on a dual carriageway) at what might be 45mph to overtake them, forcing a flow of 70mph vehicals to slam the breaks on, whilst they overtake.
Maybe it shouldnt be law, but it should be stated somewhere, probably in the highway code, that it is advisable to travel along moterways at speeds in excess of what lorries can do
It was not meant to be taken literaly, but as an opinion of the people that do this, are a far more danger to safety than people who travel at 15mph above the limit, and I thought the police and safety partnerships were interested in safety.
What worries me, is that I see a lot of people driving very slow, forcing lorries to have to overtake, which is unecessary. It isnt just the old people in old cars who are doing this. I blame some of it on the whole speed kills message, they probably think they are perfectly safe plodding along at 50mph or less.
I have often set the cruise control at 70mph, and been very worried at the speed I fly past these people, especially as the lorries often get slowed down by them, then have to pull out (worst on a dual carriageway) at what might be 45mph to overtake them, forcing a flow of 70mph vehicals to slam the breaks on, whilst they overtake.
Maybe it shouldnt be law, but it should be stated somewhere, probably in the highway code, that it is advisable to travel along moterways at speeds in excess of what lorries can do
streaky said:
So is 55mph the minimum speed on a motorway under the Highway Code?
I thought it was 45mph?? (please clarify someone).
You are joking, aren't you? There is no overall minimum speed limit on motorways (or other roads) in the UK ... unless specifically indicated (and there are precious few of those). Of course, if you were driving in a large "convoy" of vehicles on the M4 around Swindon the police might consider there was a minimum speed that you should maintain so as not to make it too obvious that you were making a point about scameras!
Streaky
I wasn't joking streaky, I just didn't know and don't have my copy of the Highway Code to hand (no doubt you keep it in your back pocket ;-) ). This doesn't mean I drive anywhere near as low as that on the motorway, far from it!
However, I can't see a problem with people driving at 50mph in the inside lane if that's what they want. IMHO the HGVs have no business going much faster than that. Far more congestion is caused by MLM and OLM morons and HGVs pulling out to pass each other on a gradient at 2mph differential (WHY do they do that??). And the impatient that choose to travel at 100k + in busy congestion are just impatient, they should just take a valium and drive with the rest of the traffic flow.
On the question of 'modern cars' that argument is a bit irrelevant anyway as who are we to know what these 50 milers are driving?? If grandad wants to pootle along in his Austin A40 then let him, its probably a safe speed for a car with 45 year old technology and the guy probably saved your dad's a*se in the last World War...
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff