SORN Fine!!! Nanny state again.
Discussion
My misses has just received a fine for not having taxed her car for 3 months. The car is off the road, in our garage, has a current MOT and has not been used since a) the tax ran out, and b) since she spends a lot of time travelling in Europe, and when she has been here has been using my car. However, we had not declared the car SORN because, at any time we thought that we might put tax back on it if she was to need her car again.
I personally think the DVLA are taking the ****ing piss. If they or the police find my or any other car on the public roads without tax I think they have every right to clamp, fine, remove, crush whatever they like to that car. However, to send us a fine for £68 when the car is just sitting in the garage until we need it is well out of order. Again, a nanny state, where we have to tell the government everything we are or aren’t doing with everything in our lives. Reminds me why we're so keen to leave the UK.
(This post was written in anger having just opened the fine, any advice on how to legally avoid paying the fine would be welcomed. When did this SORN rule come into play?)
>> Edited by cliff123 on Monday 12th December 10:44
>> Edited by cliff123 on Monday 12th December 10:46
I personally think the DVLA are taking the ****ing piss. If they or the police find my or any other car on the public roads without tax I think they have every right to clamp, fine, remove, crush whatever they like to that car. However, to send us a fine for £68 when the car is just sitting in the garage until we need it is well out of order. Again, a nanny state, where we have to tell the government everything we are or aren’t doing with everything in our lives. Reminds me why we're so keen to leave the UK.
(This post was written in anger having just opened the fine, any advice on how to legally avoid paying the fine would be welcomed. When did this SORN rule come into play?)
>> Edited by cliff123 on Monday 12th December 10:44
>> Edited by cliff123 on Monday 12th December 10:46
cliff123 said:
I personally think the DVLA are taking the ****ing piss.
Unfortunately, I think you've shot yourselves in the foot there. Yes, the whole idea of needing to declare SORN is a bit of a joke, but its not as if its not made abundantly clear on the renewal and in TV & press ads.
For the sake of filling in a piece of paper, you could have avoided the hassle for virtually no effort.
Tell them that you sent the form back (the tax disc reminder/sorn form) and its the first time you have had to deal with SORN. Ask for another form to send in and state that you will send it recorded delivery this time. It shows good faith on your part and also demonstrates that the car is still off the road. You might get someone to exercise their discretion.
pdV6 said:
I personally think the DVLA are taking the ****ing piss.
Unfortunately, I think you've shot yourselves in the foot there. Yes, the whole idea of needing to declare SORN is a bit of a joke, but its not as if its not made abundantly clear on the renewal and in TV & press ads.
For the sake of filling in a piece of paper, you could have avoided the hassle for virtually no effort.
Fair enough but the point is.. how much is this solving crime and how much is it frustrating and unjustifiably fining the innocent members of public? 50/50? 80/20? 95/5?
pentoman said:
I personally think the DVLA are taking the ****ing piss.
Unfortunately, I think you've shot yourselves in the foot there. Yes, the whole idea of needing to declare SORN is a bit of a joke, but its not as if its not made abundantly clear on the renewal and in TV & press ads.
For the sake of filling in a piece of paper, you could have avoided the hassle for virtually no effort.
Fair enough but the point is.. how much is this solving crime and how much is it frustrating and unjustifiably fining the innocent members of public? 50/50? 80/20? 95/5?
Don't get me wrong - I totally agree that the whole idea of SORN is a joke (as stated).
I was just pointing out that the answer to the original question (i.e. "how can I avoid paying?"
is: "you can't".Cliff - I can tell it really p*sses you off and I can see why. BUT you needed to shout about this when they first brought in SORN. You needed to raise your angry voice then, on principle. Trouble is, nobody does anything until they get caught, and only then does it become outrageous.
Every Man Jack and 'is dog knows about SORN, so you'are gonna have to pay up. Can't...Crime...Time. Lifes a bitch innit.
>> Edited by Big Fat F'er on Monday 12th December 12:55
Every Man Jack and 'is dog knows about SORN, so you'are gonna have to pay up. Can't...Crime...Time. Lifes a bitch innit.
>> Edited by Big Fat F'er on Monday 12th December 12:55
Not sure if it's changed recently, but after SORN was introduced, if you buy an untaxed car... the seller posts the V5C off and you post the SORN declaration - to get your SORN declaration back with a covering letter a week later, the covering letter stating that one cannot declare SORN on a car one doesn't own. Unbelievable and not unusual.
When declaring SORN I always go to the Post Office and get a PO receipt - firstly the vehicle record is updated there and then, and secondly if things should go wrong and they claim I've not declared SORN then I have the receipt (not been necessary yet tho).
I agree, the SORN 'thing' isn't remotely well publicised.
Rich.
When declaring SORN I always go to the Post Office and get a PO receipt - firstly the vehicle record is updated there and then, and secondly if things should go wrong and they claim I've not declared SORN then I have the receipt (not been necessary yet tho).
I agree, the SORN 'thing' isn't remotely well publicised.
Rich.
Big Fat F'er said:
some stuff
Not so. Few people are aware. Most people with 2.2 kids and 2 cars always in use have no need. It catches out the enthusiast and basically fines those who don't conform and are not up with this govts plethora of control freak legislation.
I wrote a submission against it 2 years ago as I have done for the present insurance nonsense; trouble is DFT/DVLA interpret submissions in whichever way they chose.
Democracy ? Rubbish - we live in an inefficient police state
Richard C said:
some stuff
Richard C said:
Not so. Few people are aware.
Sorry R, I just don't buy it. In my experience most people are aware , but I'm sure they want to claim not to when they get caught (and no, I'm not talking about the original poster). I've just asked about 30 people at work what they knew about it. All of them know about it, and most know what the acronym SORN stands for. But let me guess, you are now going to come back with details of all those who don't know.
Richard C said:
Most people with 2.2 kids and 2 cars always in use have no need.
Correct...and your point is?
Richard C said:
It catches out the enthusiast...
No, 'it catches out' those that don't know about SORN. I would have expected the enthusiast to know more, not less, because they are enthusiatic, and more likely to seek out information.
Richard C said:
..and basically fines those who don't conform..
As do most punishments.
Richard C said:
..and are not up with this govts plethora of control freak legislation..
There are some serious 'control freak' issues in this Country. However, all SORN is saying is that you have to tax your car for use on the road. If you are not going to use it on the road, then declare it, so that you don't have to tax it, and you wont get done. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me, or I suspect to many others. Why dont you get excited about something that matters, something serious, something that affects others.
Richard C said:
I wrote a submission against it 2 years ago as I have done for the present insurance nonsense; trouble is DFT/DVLA interpret submissions in whichever way they chose
Presumeably your evidence to support that claim is that they disagreed with you. Hmmm!
[quote=Richard C]Democracy ? Rubbish - we live in an inefficient police state
Democracy - it doesn't mean always getting your own way.
Inefficient - yes, in a lot of ways.
Police State - idiotic and ridiculous statement, and offensive (or laughable because of your lack of political understanding) to those who spend their time doing something about genuine police states.
Put this into perspective. They didn't do SORN as they should have done. They've got done for it. Of all the things wrong with this world, you seriously think that this is a major issue. Whatever.
>> Edited by Big Fat F'er on Tuesday 13th December 12:47
>> Edited by Big Fat F'er on Tuesday 13th December 12:48
I agree, SORN and also the CURRENT PROPOSAL to make it illegal to have a taxed but uninsured car sitting on your property are ridiculous. If the gov want to crack down on tax dodgers then they should scrap road tax and increase fuel duty.
This month I declared SORN on the 2nd and bought tax on the 6th (failed the MOT on the 31st). I'm just waiting for my fine becasue I didn't declare SORN on the 1st.
This month I declared SORN on the 2nd and bought tax on the 6th (failed the MOT on the 31st). I'm just waiting for my fine becasue I didn't declare SORN on the 1st.
[quote]
............... If you are not going to use it on the road, then declare it, so that you don't have to tax it, and you wont get done.
[/quote]
Following the same principle through - should I declare to some authority that I'm going out tonight, taking my penis with me but don't intend to use it; and, if I don't make this declaration, should I be guilty of an offence?
SORN is just another case of knee-jerk legislation that assumes people guilty before the act. The drongo's they really want to target for no tax, insurance etc are unlikely to be the RK and just walk away from their demeanours.
............... If you are not going to use it on the road, then declare it, so that you don't have to tax it, and you wont get done.
[/quote]
Following the same principle through - should I declare to some authority that I'm going out tonight, taking my penis with me but don't intend to use it; and, if I don't make this declaration, should I be guilty of an offence?
SORN is just another case of knee-jerk legislation that assumes people guilty before the act. The drongo's they really want to target for no tax, insurance etc are unlikely to be the RK and just walk away from their demeanours.
The DVLA computer does its 'weeding out' of non-SORNED vehicles in the middle of the second month following the start of the month when SORN should have been declared. Eg if your vehicle's road tax runs out on 31st January then your vehicle will appear on the 'weeding out' list run in the middle of March and you will then get fined.
This was in Car Mechanics mag a few years ago. I doubt it will have changed, as while there would be more fines collected if the 'weeding out' happened earlier, there would be a commensurate amount of extra paperwork to be done and extra admin staff paid for as well. Not that I'm a cynic...
Rich
This was in Car Mechanics mag a few years ago. I doubt it will have changed, as while there would be more fines collected if the 'weeding out' happened earlier, there would be a commensurate amount of extra paperwork to be done and extra admin staff paid for as well. Not that I'm a cynic...
Rich
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