Jury Service a very unawanted massive cost
Discussion
[quote=furry dice]Just received a Jury Summons, Yes I can claim for loss of earning but the forms seem to suggest a maximum of 56.96 a day, that won’t cover my mortgage let alone feed me.
CHRIST..... Do people actually have mortgages of £56.96 X 31days = £1,765.76 just imagine if the Tories get in and put the mortgage rate up to 15% again, you would be in the sh1t good style.
CHRIST..... Do people actually have mortgages of £56.96 X 31days = £1,765.76 just imagine if the Tories get in and put the mortgage rate up to 15% again, you would be in the sh1t good style.
bmw114 said:Not the thread for politics. In any case, the 15% interest rate was for a matter of hours on the day the Pound fell out of the ERM.
[quote=furry dice]Just received a Jury Summons, Yes I can claim for loss of earning but the forms seem to suggest a maximum of 56.96 a day, that won’t cover my mortgage let alone feed me.
CHRIST..... Do people actually have mortgages of £56.96 X 31days = £1,765.76 just imagine if the Tories get in and put the mortgage rate up to 15% again, you would be in the sh1t good style.
>> Edited by Zod on Tuesday 27th December 18:04
justinp1 said:That's all very well if you're a regular employee, but if you're a proprietor / owner / one-man-band company then this is really neither here nor there.
As far as I am aware, your company should pay your wages as normal, although I dont think that they are forced to pay your wages.
Don't forget, you are NOT self-employed if you are the sole employee of a limited company - you are an employee of the limited company. It's only Sole Traders who are actually "self employed", although the whole thing is so confusing that it is easy to get it wrong and then you have to contend with Eric MC ticking you off about it.
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 27th December 16:35
[quote=JonRB It's only Sole Traders who are actually "self employed", although the whole thing is so confusing that it is easy to get it wrong and then you have to contend with Eric MC ticking you off about it.
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 27th December 16:35[/quote]
Don't forget partners in a partnership are also self-employed.
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 27th December 16:35[/quote]
Don't forget partners in a partnership are also self-employed.
JonRB said:
As far as I am aware, your company should pay your wages as normal, although I dont think that they are forced to pay your wages.
Don't forget, you are NOT self-employed if you are the sole employee of a limited company - you are an employee of the limited company. It's only Sole Traders who are actually "self employed", although the whole thing is so confusing that it is easy to get it wrong and then you have to contend with Eric MC ticking you off about it.
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 27th December 16:35
It depends what definition of self-employed you use. One I have heard is if you would not get paid if you were not working. For example, if you were the director of a plumbing company, and you were doing the work yourself. Another definition I have heard, by an underwiting company for a loan is that if you are a director of a limited company you are self employed if you have more than a 30% ownership of the company.
I think in either of those situations I would have thought that would be good enough for the court. The other options would be if you called and you knew the defendant or you fell ill on the day you were to attend. If there was a risk that you could not complete the service, it would make sens that they would just use someone else out of the pool.
justinp1 said:
As far as I am aware, your company should pay your wages as normal, although I dont think that they are forced to pay your wages
Your employer is under no obligation to pay you during jury service. The only thing the law requires of them is to give you the time off.
It does suck though. I did it in October but I was lucky, my boss agreed it was unfair for me to lose money and paid me as normal.
The best thing was I could claim fuel costs even though I would've used more going to work so I was up that week. Plus I wasn't required some days and work just told me I'd already been covered so I could enjoy the day off. That probably doesn't make you feel any better, sorry.
If you are self-employed can’t you responded saying that it is critical for you to be working so can’t take the time off from your work?
I’ve done it 3 times now, the third time it clashed with a holiday I already had booked and they moved the date by a month or so later.
I actually did well out of jury service but there was so much waiting around it can get very boring at times.
I’ve done it 3 times now, the third time it clashed with a holiday I already had booked and they moved the date by a month or so later.
I actually did well out of jury service but there was so much waiting around it can get very boring at times.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Not eligible for Jury Service:
4.Incapacity - mental illness, physical disability or limited understanding of the English language so according to Judge not capable of effectively acting as Juror.
Reasons of illness, deafness, blindness, pregnancy (advise strongly against trying this), holidays plans, sole trader or connected to defendant.
General inconvienance is not enough.
Can you argue that the loss will make you ill due to stress?
I'm completely serious. This was debated on the radio some time ago and several small business owners said that a long court case could be very damaging or possibly even ruin them.
The court can increase your expenses at its discretion.
It may help to write a letter stating that you would suffer extreme loss, giving examples. and that you would love to attend if the expenses were better. It might help to point out that the amount you are requesting is less than many proffesional rates
if it is actually less than the solicitors or the judge are getting. Point out that you are very very worried about the potential loss and fear that your ability to concentrate on the case would be reduced. Might work.
Apparently saying you're racist works. has anyone tried this! Did they get any hassle over stating this?
cymtriks said:
Not eligible for Jury Service:
4.Incapacity - mental illness, physical disability or limited understanding of the English language so according to Judge not capable of effectively acting as Juror.
Reasons of illness, deafness, blindness, pregnancy (advise strongly against trying this), holidays plans, sole trader or connected to defendant.
General inconvienance is not enough.
Can you argue that the loss will make you ill due to stress?
I'm completely serious. This was debated on the radio some time ago and several small business owners said that a long court case could be very damaging or possibly even ruin them.
The court can increase your expenses at its discretion.
It may help to write a letter stating that you would suffer extreme loss, giving examples. and that you would love to attend if the expenses were better. It might help to point out that the amount you are requesting is less than many proffesional rates
Might work.
Apparently saying you're racist works. has anyone tried this! Did they get any hassle over stating this?
I suppose the racism way forward must work. The clerks must ensure that no jurors have any prejudice to the case for *any* reason. For example if it were a rape case, someone who had been raped would be an obvious example. If you are a racist but not mentioning it publically you are not breaking a law, but fulfilling your obligation to inform the clerks of your views. A less harsh way would be to merely mention that you are worried that you could be impartial as you have been the victim of local scallies victimising you and the police have not been able to act. This may be seen as enough to predjudice a decision.
I would be tempted to say that although you would love to come to jury service if you explain that their offer of expenses would nopt cover your families household bills and mortgage, if your employer is not paying you it would take a very hard face at the court not to be able to either excuse you or increase your expenses. After all, if you explain the simple fact that if you were to be in court for two weeks, there would not be enough money in your account to pay the mortgage and it would then be in default, putting your house at risk I am not sure how they would be able not to accept that as difficult enough circumstances. After all they surely cannot put you in that situation!?
jewhoo said:Interestingly in that case the Pakistani-English boys concerned were only 'not racist' against Caucasian-English, Indian-English, and, IIRC, Chinese-English. So they didn't attack their own. Sounds pretty racist to me...sounds positively xenophobic!
But according to the judge in the recent murder of a white man by asians, that means you are not racist as all are hated equally!
Re: jury service, strikes me have 2 routes:-
If employed, ask employer about salary. If won't be paid:-
1) get employer to put this in writing, present to court together with details of monthly salary and mandatory outgoings; or
2) go down a slighly less honest route and try and get deselected through other means.
If self-employed, or equivalent:-
1) put together details of estimated lost earnings per day and mandatory outgoings, present to court; or
2) as (2) above.
I don't feel it is right to penalise someone for jury service, which is what effectively happens. However, this country penalises those who work in so many other ways, what difference does this one make?!?
havoc said:Don't forget the Afro-Carribean-English gentleman they verbally abused - Streaky
But according to the judge in the recent murder of a white man by asians, that means you are not racist as all are hated equally!
MrsMiggins said:
Last time I was called for Jury Service the Clerk was happy to excuse anyone in your situation. He also excused a guy whose wife was just about to go into labour and another couple of people for other non-standard reasons.
He did say that other Clerks were not so accommodating, so it'll probably be just down to luck on the day. If they refuse to excuse you and you get called just make sure you tell them you think all cops are liars and that you hate them all - a guy was excused when he said that!
Yep..If you ell thenm that you are hugely racist and have strong opinions then you are likely to be excused. Remember that a jury has to be non-opinionated and gullible to do the job.
Liebchen - you are incorrigible! 
Ist a real problem for people und you get some choice of prison term for refusal or lock up for two weeks und sometime you are not called... 
The good news ist that if not called in morning - they let you go at lunch time - so you may be able to get half day back - lieber furry dice!
I agree it seems very unfair to be out of pocket like this. Un other bad news ist - if you manage to get out of it this time - they just invite you on another occasion. You could try to telll them that ist inconvenient at moment because of pressure of work - but they call you again und refuse to take "no" for answer. We have neighbour who tried this - he still had to do it... But any employer worth salt should pay this "statutory leave"- but I did read of one in local newspaper who deducted jury service pay und made up balance of weekly wages
But if self-employed - I would write non-bolshy letter stating case und ask for some consideration in matter as resentment does not make "good justice".
The good news ist that if not called in morning - they let you go at lunch time - so you may be able to get half day back - lieber furry dice! havoc said:
But according to the judge in the recent murder of a white man by asians, that means you are not racist as all are hated equally!
Re: jury service, strikes me have 2 routes:-
If employed, ask employer about salary. If won't be paid:-
1) get employer to put this in writing, present to court together with details of monthly salary and mandatory outgoings; or
2) go down a slighly less honest route and try and get deselected through other means.
If self-employed, or equivalent:-
1) put together details of estimated lost earnings per day and mandatory outgoings, present to court; or
2) as (2) above.
I don't feel it is right to penalise someone for jury service, which is what effectively happens. However, this country penalises those who work in so many other ways, what difference does this one make?!?
I agree it seems very unfair to be out of pocket like this. Un other bad news ist - if you manage to get out of it this time - they just invite you on another occasion. You could try to telll them that ist inconvenient at moment because of pressure of work - but they call you again und refuse to take "no" for answer. We have neighbour who tried this - he still had to do it...
But any employer worth salt should pay this "statutory leave"- but I did read of one in local newspaper who deducted jury service pay und made up balance of weekly wages But if self-employed - I would write non-bolshy letter stating case und ask for some consideration in matter as resentment does not make "good justice".
Well I’ve decided to try and see if i can be excluded on the grounds of financial hardship, will be sending a letter from my accountant plus details of fixed outgoings etc and here’s hoping the great British legal system will be reasonable.
Guess I’ve got a couple of weeks wait till find out.
Guess I’ve got a couple of weeks wait till find out.
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