Police tick off driver for snow on car roof

[Balmoral Green]

What's so hard to understand? A few posters say what 'might' happen with regard to snow sliding forward and obscuring the windscreen, then a few posters say it 'has' actually happened, me included, it happened to me. This is not conjecture, it is pure hard cold fact, empirical data based on observation of what has actually happened, something you usually respect Turbobloke. Now if just a handfull of PH'ers can say this, a larger sample may well show many, many cases of this happening. But instead you are dismissing it all out of hand but with no evidence to support your assertion. But then, how can you prove that it is not a problem? it was for me. Unless you ignore the evidence and facts from those who have actually experienced it. You are coming across like one of those folks you usually refute so eloquently with your charts and graphs.

[apache]

Balmoral Green said:

What's so hard to understand? A few posters say what 'might' happen with regard to snow sliding forward and obscuring the windscreen, then a few posters say it 'has' actually happened, me included, it happened to me. This is not conjecture, it is pure hard cold fact, empirical data based on observation of what has actually happened, something you usually respect Turbobloke. Now if just a handfull of PH'ers can say this, a larger sample may well show many, many cases of this happening. But instead you are dismissing it all out of hand but with no evidence to support your assertion. But then, how can you prove that it is not a problem? it was for me. Unless you ignore the evidence and facts from those who have actually experienced it. You are coming across like one of those folks you usually refute so eloquently with your charts and graphs.

I learnt to drive a car in the Highlands, snow on the roof was never a consideration, admittedly a slab would, and quite often slide off on to the screen but it was never a problem the wipers couldn't handle, in conditions that severe we were driving so slowly that you could stop in an instance anyway. Sounds like hysteria to me.

[Balmoral Green]

It's like wrestling with fog.

[apache]

depends where you live I suppose, in East Anglia we get severe weather warning when there's a threat of a dusting of the stuff, when I lived in Scotland we never listened to the weather reports after a survey showed that 50% of em were inaccurate. It seemed more imperitive to concentrate on driving across hard packed snow than worrying if a bit would slide off on to the screen. This, of course, presumes that you would clear anything more than 4 inches of the stuff off your roof before you got in the car................or am I stating the obvious?

[nonegreen]

Buffalo said:

nonegreen said: This is nonsense we should not be paying people to busybody. There are crimes to be solved, perhaps the politicians are right traffic police are well past their sell by. duty of care mate - i can't see the problem with a policeman having a quiet word. Rightfully so in this instance, flying snow from cars is a hazard and its smacks of laziness to not remove it from the roof as well as windows; for a start it would mostly likely slide down his rear window and sit on the wiper anyway, thus making his earlier efforts useless. This blokes reaction seems mostly to be of embaressmentand probably indignation that he was stopped given that he obviously thought his driving record set him above others. Most people get over it, others mouth off to the press and look more of a tit. Just think, if he hadn't said anything noone would have known about it except for him and the policeman - now he parades himself in the local rag and as far as i am concerned is making a tit of himself. Would have expected more from supposedly a "special constable" too. >> Edited by Buffalo on Sunday 8th January 07:11

Duty of care? Non fit injuria. There are little girls having thier faces slashed open by little bastards that need the skin flaying off their backs. I have absolutely no time at all for tossers with a badge who want to engage in silliness, sack em and scrap their pension. If they cant cut it on the street combatting crime then lets get rid, traffic cops are a waste of space. If CID want to play traffic cops then sack em.

[streaky]

turbobloke said:

GreenV8S said: turbobloke said: Snow blowing from a car's roof is barely visible on a list of possible driving hazards, it would clear from a following car's windscreen instantly / easily and there wouldn't be enough going on to the road to affect grip. Well I disagree, and I guess the policeman did too. A large block of snow landing on the windscreen can blind you for several seconds, and potentially much longer if it is too thick for the wipers to shift. Where was this, Alaska? You're making stuff up here. ...

Perhaps your location in the "SW" has given you a misleading impression of how much snow can accumulate on a vehicle and how it can freeze into a solid block. I am as sure that GreenV8S was no more making things up than I was - Streaky

[mybrainhurts]

If snow moves from roof to windscreen under braking, you're driving too fast, and braking too hard, for the conditions.

If snow blows from the vehicle in front onto your windscreen, you're driving too close.....

[turbobloke]

Balmoral Green said:

You are coming across like one of those folks you usually refute so eloquently with your charts and graphs.

That's a weak argument BG. It amounts to primary school playground taunting and offers nothing, if you've got something more likely to convince me and others that this plain clothes cop's safety fascism was in any way justified, put it on here.

apache said:

Sounds like hysteria to me.

Me too, but a jobsworth's work is never done and this cop must have been bored to hell or had a bad day with the swmbo to waste time being a jobsworth like that, we can discuss White Fang stuff and compare Cotswold winters with Kent all night, makes no difference to the basic notion that this was a totally unnecessary act of pettiness justified by the flimsiest of safety totalitarian excuses.

nonegreen said:

There are little girls having thier faces slashed open by little bastards that need the skin flaying off their backs. I have absolutely no time at all for tossers with a badge who want to engage in silliness, sack em and scrap their pension.

Well I'd settle for an upheld complaint and a charge of wasting his own police time, but if you insist. There must be someone who could do the job with more common sense.

streaky said:

Perhaps your location in the "SW" has given you a misleading impression of how much snow can accumulate on a vehicle and how it can freeze into a solid block.

Yeah we often get cut off here so perhaps my view of real world winter driving problems doesn't match up to a couple of flakes in Kent, one being the cop.

mybrainhurts said:

If snow moves from roof to windscreen under braking, you're driving too fast, and braking too hard, for the conditions. If snow blows from the vehicle in front onto your windscreen, you're driving too close.....

[JMGS4]

The policeman was CORRECT in ticking the guy off! I don't know the ins and outs of the uniform/non-uniform question but the drivers vehicle was in a dangerous condition! At BalmoralGreen rightly says and learnt through his own numptyism, snow on the roof is DANGEROUS and also illegal in the EU!!!
I've seen tarped trucks losing 500kg of solid ice from the roof, which has exploded on the ground around my car as it fell. If it had hit anyone they would have been killed... tinplate can be repaired... bodies not!!!
If a roofcovering of snow slides forward during braking it can blind the driver, and it will happen later than you expect! The roof will heat up whilst driving, create a film of water between the roof and the load of snow (probably after 15 minutes in the car), and then the SLIGHTEST change in forward momentum will cause it to slide forward and down the windscreen blinding the driver. If it is thick then the wipers will NOT be able to remove it. Obviously if it's a skin if 1mm thick it would not be a problem.....
Here in Germany it's a €40-60 fine and three points for driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition, same as bald or inappropriate tyres....
IMHO snowy roofs (thick load) on a car is criminally lazy and should be as harshly followed as bald tyres and uninsured drivers.....

[turbobloke]

streaky said:

turbobloke said: Yeah we often get cut off here so perhaps my view of real world winter driving problems doesn't match up to a couple of flakes in Kent, one being the cop. Ted - can this insulting comment be BINNED please - Streaky

That's a curious post, there's a "report abuse" option that does the same thing - why would you want to make your protest so public? I think I can guess.

In turn I would claim the right to fair if biting comment through a play on words without obscenity to lampoon any jobsworth regardless of the colour of their uniform, and that would include the one I once served in if the occasion ever arose.

A quick look through some PH forums finds quite a few very prominent public persons described as fg tw@ts or cnuts, without so much as a murmur from would-be censor streaky. PArt of the reason why I know this is because I, like others, have used this device. Curious.

There was no intention to breach Ted's rules.

>> Edited by turbobloke on Monday 9th January 12:12

[silverback mike]

This is obviously an emotive thread, and one that I do have a view on, albeit a subjective one. Everyone has their opinion, and rather than spiralling into abuse mode I think a few things have to be clear.

Personally I think that if a vehicle has a large amount of snow on the roof that 'may' cause an obstruction to the driver then a friendly word would not go amiss. The manner in which it was given can, like anything, change opinion.

Large amounts of snow can obliterate the view ahead, depending on manner of driving etc etc. The Dc or whoever pointed this out the the aggrieved party does have a bearing, as indeed does the amount of white stuff. Ice on the other hand, is extremly dangerous. Busses(?sp) on my patch make sure that their rooves are clear of this hazard prior to embarking on their shifts.

A dusting of snow obviously isn't a hazard and I think the line should be drawn at common sense level.

I can't comment on this particular episode as I wasn't there but can only really add that if something did happen as a result of the snow obscuring the windscreen then it would be a contributing factor to a prosecution. I have never exercised this personally as we don't get that much snow where I am, but something I would consider.

[GregE240]

How long does it take to clear a roof of snow?

It took 15 seconds on the SL last Saturday, FFS. Time to me to switch the engine on and press the heated seat button.

Honestly.

[turbobloke]

silverback mike said:

Large amounts of snow can obliterate the view ahead, depending on manner of driving etc A dusting of snow obviously isn't a hazard and I think the line should be drawn at common sense level.

Agreed. Noted also that, like the (large number of) BiB / trafpol I've seen over the years with snow blowing off their own car roof, and watching it blow off others while doing nothing, your track record of zero words in shell-likes is telling. Understood that you wouild reserve the right to do so, but telling all the same.

GregE240 said:

How long does it take to clear a roof of snow? It took 15 seconds on the SL last Saturday, FFS. Time to me to switch the engine on and press the heated seat button. Honestly.

Agreed again but that's not the point here. The guy was lazy, but with a 30 mph journey in Kent was the snow blowing off the roof likely to be a serious hazard? Nope.

[silverback mike]

[TheLemming]

Now we've reached the "splitting hairs" stage of this thread, is there anywhere further it can go?

We would all agree that excessive snow and ice on the roof of a vehicle can be dangerous, as illustrated by various anecdotes.

A light dusting of snow is no hazard of any kind.

If there was lots of snow or even if the officer had recently attended a "snow from roof" related incident, then it may be justified. If it was the tiniest of drizzles, it was either pointless jobsworthism, or alternatively the policeman had another reason for wanting to talk to the guy. (ie the "looks a bit dodgy, lets have a chat. Official reason may be spurious as IIRC a reason is required for a stop. Hence the many many crap reasons for a stop and chat I was given by the police while driving in my teens.)

Without any other info guys its a bit of a pointless arguement isnt it? We can hypothesise endlessly but there is no way to come to a conclusion.

[turbobloke]

If I'd seen this kind of stop happen reasonably frequently over the last 30 years I'd agree with you, if I'd read about it happening reasonably frequently I'd agree with you, if I'd read about any number of accidents in the UK blamed on not clearing snow off a car's roof I'd agree with you. There might be one, somewhere, but I can't find any news or article about it. So I don't agree with the plainclothes officer's actions, or the views of those on here who support it, and reserve the right to criticise what appears to me to be uppity jobsworth safety fascism. If others disagree then that's their prerogative, but I'm not alone in that view by any means.

Police in Kent have got a lot of time on their hands, from what I've heard there's no violent or property crime crying out for a bit of spadework, or uninsured drivers in Ashford, or drunk drivers wobbling past GATSOs that might be worthy of BiB time. Nah, it's snow on the roof week lads, get out there and nab those villains. If it was a joke it wouldn't be funny.

[apache]

turbobloke said:

If I'd seen this kind of stop happen reasonably frequently over the last 30 years I'd agree with you, if I'd read about it happening reasonably frequently I'd agree with you, if I'd read about any number of accidents in the UK blamed on not clearing snow off a car's roof I'd agree with you. There might be one, somewhere, but I can't find any news or article about it. So I don't agree with the plainclothes officer's actions, or the views of those on here who support it, and reserve the right to criticise what appears to me to be uppity jobsworth safety fascism. If others disagree then that's their prerogative, but I'm not alone in that view by any means. Police in Kent have got a lot of time on their hands, from what I've heard there's no violent or property crime crying out for a bit of spadework, or uninsured drivers in Ashford, or drunk drivers wobbling past GATSOs that might be worthy of BiB time. Nah, it's snow on the roof week lads, get out there and nab those villains. If it was a joke it wouldn't be funny.

Absolutely! I feel expecting the police to nab people on mobiles to be equally pointless, if they're all over the road, not indicating or obviously a danger then book em for DD or DWUCAA if not leave em alone. I see countless examples of real dangerous driving on a daily basis that go completely unchecked, having snow on your roof maybe foolish but it's not up there with tailgating now is it

[cyrus1971]

Completely agree with the officer. John Padwick should be ashamed of using the excuse – well every one else does it why can’t I.

Snow on roofs melts to form a layer of water on the roof between snow and roof from car cabin heating up, then cools to ice overnight still adhered to the roof and snow, then blows off as a solid lump at some speed the next day. I have seen for myself on a Transit van that braked hard for a pedestrian, ABS cut in so they avoided hitting the pedestrian but broke her back and nearly killed her daughter when 40+ Kilos of snow & ice was thrown at her body at probably 20 or so mph. Seems elementary to me

[Balmoral Green]

turbobloke said:

That's a weak argument BG. It amounts to primary school playground taunting

Nur nur na nur nur

[Code Monkey]

Given the snow may fall off in chunks, specially if frozen, and there will still be cyclists and pedestrians about while he is driving, he would be much better removing the snow before setting out for the safety of other people in his area of travel.

well done to the BiB for just the polite word and not the fine etc route.