999 calls seem more interested in me than the incidident?
Discussion
I do quite a few motorway miles and as such see quite a few incidents, most recent of which was seeing a truck broken down/stopped in the fast lane of the M62. Anyway, on the phone to 999 the woman seemed more interested in getting my details (made it quite clear i was hands free) than those of the incident. I have probably had to call ~5 times in total and each time they seem to want to know more and more about me. Why, aside from possible witness statements (although they know my number/details as soon as i call)?
Same here - I've reported a few things to the local plod as well as 999 services - every time I spend far more time on telling them about me then the incident 
I accept that they may need to track me down in the event of needing a witness etc - but it's the manner of the questioning. Very intrusive.
I accept that they may need to track me down in the event of needing a witness etc - but it's the manner of the questioning. Very intrusive.
Consider that the call is going to a Police Control Centre which is usually well staffed.
While the caller is taking personal details other members of staff/supervision may well have cut in on the call at the start and already organising sending units/logistics etc. which will not be apparent to caller.
dvd
While the caller is taking personal details other members of staff/supervision may well have cut in on the call at the start and already organising sending units/logistics etc. which will not be apparent to caller.
dvd
Usually on command and control systems (where the operator inputs the information about the job) There is a small section that contains a summary.
So you call up and say "there is a 4 car crash on the M40 Jcn 12 and the road is blocked" for example.
The job gets passed to the radio operator who starts to send units to the scene.
You then pass your details and any updates are ammended to the log. Imagine the log as a rolling timed history, the updates are viewed by the radio operator as they are typed and updates are passed to the units as they come in.
So while you are giving your details units are already making to the scene initially based on the summary. And deployment options are amended as you update the 999 operator. The system works pretty well as the clasification of job automatically brings up preset options.
Such as...
If the clasification is Traffic / Injury RTA
Then the system automatically checks avaliability of Traffic units, displays who is avaliable and gives the list of avaliable units to the radio op.
It then promts for Ambulance and fire services.
Then it will automatically pass the info to The traffic board operators.
All that is done without the radio operator doing a thing.
Same with almost any clasification. And there are alot of Classifications!
So you call up and say "there is a 4 car crash on the M40 Jcn 12 and the road is blocked" for example.
The job gets passed to the radio operator who starts to send units to the scene.
You then pass your details and any updates are ammended to the log. Imagine the log as a rolling timed history, the updates are viewed by the radio operator as they are typed and updates are passed to the units as they come in.
So while you are giving your details units are already making to the scene initially based on the summary. And deployment options are amended as you update the 999 operator. The system works pretty well as the clasification of job automatically brings up preset options.
Such as...
If the clasification is Traffic / Injury RTA
Then the system automatically checks avaliability of Traffic units, displays who is avaliable and gives the list of avaliable units to the radio op.
It then promts for Ambulance and fire services.
Then it will automatically pass the info to The traffic board operators.
All that is done without the radio operator doing a thing.
Same with almost any clasification. And there are alot of Classifications!
Also I think there must have a checklist of standard questions to ask. Twice on main dual carriage-way in the last six months, a car directly in front of me has lost concentration, clipped the kerb and made multiple rolls over the embankment. Each time I have made the emergency call before making my way back to the incident and also despite making this fact clear, the conversation each time was along the lines of:
Q: Do the occupants require medical assistance?
A: I can't be certain as I'm not at the scene but I'd be very suprprised if they don't
Q: Is anyone bleeding?
A: I expect so.
Q: Is anyone unconcious?
A: Quite possibly if not dead.
etc
It's reassuring to think that possibly the call was being listened to by more than one person becasue all I was thinking was that this was wasting time until the service could be sent.
Q: Do the occupants require medical assistance?
A: I can't be certain as I'm not at the scene but I'd be very suprprised if they don't
Q: Is anyone bleeding?
A: I expect so.
Q: Is anyone unconcious?
A: Quite possibly if not dead.
etc
It's reassuring to think that possibly the call was being listened to by more than one person becasue all I was thinking was that this was wasting time until the service could be sent.
Yeah they do have a list of standard questions to ask. Again this is usually part of the command and control system to ensure all relavent questions are asked depending on the clasification, they cannot usually be overridden.
The call is not listened to but when the job is created on the computer it is transfered to the radio terminal to kind of listening in but not if you know what i mean.
Its hard to explain unless you have seen the system work or seen a command and control log.
But its all about getting units deployed asap with the right information by the time they reach the scene.
They wont hold you for 5 mins before deploying units to immediate jobs as there are time targets for deploying to immediate jobs for control room operators.
The call is not listened to but when the job is created on the computer it is transfered to the radio terminal to kind of listening in but not if you know what i mean.
Its hard to explain unless you have seen the system work or seen a command and control log.
But its all about getting units deployed asap with the right information by the time they reach the scene.
They wont hold you for 5 mins before deploying units to immediate jobs as there are time targets for deploying to immediate jobs for control room operators.
I am currently one of the control room Sgt's for our force.(Due to injury I must add 
We use the 'storm' command and control system. There are no prompts however the call handlers are pretty good.
If you ring 999 this is routed by a bt operator to our 999 lines.
The call handler gets the call in their headset after operator has given the number.
They then open a 'cad log' which basically is the incident record.
They will then fill in 5 fields, these are the incident type, priority of incident, location, addressee details, and contact details. Once they press enter, the dispatchers (radio bods) get it on their screen.
This is why it's important to get at least one line on the text, ie " 4 veh rta J15 - j16 M5. Road blocked, one vehicle on it's roof etc etc"
The dispatcher than sends however many units would be required.
Whilst the dispatcher is doing this the callhandler is gathering relevant information, as well as alerting ambulance or any other agencies required.
The need for the informants details are purely if you are required as a witness, or for crime jobs whether you can be contacted to give a statement, or even to be picked up by the police unit for a street id or similar.
The information isn't put anywhere and nothing is done with it, but it is important to get good details as you may be required in court.
Our force did start asking for informants dates of birth, but this quite rightly bit the dust early on as it bears no relevance to the information being given. Also, pnc checks should not be, and aren't done on informants as there is a breach of data protection there.
Often its nice to get a regular informant that gives good information.
Hope that helps
Mike.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 17:58
We use the 'storm' command and control system. There are no prompts however the call handlers are pretty good.
If you ring 999 this is routed by a bt operator to our 999 lines.
The call handler gets the call in their headset after operator has given the number.
They then open a 'cad log' which basically is the incident record.
They will then fill in 5 fields, these are the incident type, priority of incident, location, addressee details, and contact details. Once they press enter, the dispatchers (radio bods) get it on their screen.
This is why it's important to get at least one line on the text, ie " 4 veh rta J15 - j16 M5. Road blocked, one vehicle on it's roof etc etc"
The dispatcher than sends however many units would be required.
Whilst the dispatcher is doing this the callhandler is gathering relevant information, as well as alerting ambulance or any other agencies required.
The need for the informants details are purely if you are required as a witness, or for crime jobs whether you can be contacted to give a statement, or even to be picked up by the police unit for a street id or similar.
The information isn't put anywhere and nothing is done with it, but it is important to get good details as you may be required in court.
Our force did start asking for informants dates of birth, but this quite rightly bit the dust early on as it bears no relevance to the information being given. Also, pnc checks should not be, and aren't done on informants as there is a breach of data protection there.
Often its nice to get a regular informant that gives good information.
Hope that helps
Mike.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 17:58
Interested to read the comments on standard questions,
I attended a first aid course where the instructor went through the list of questions we would likely be asked if calling 999 for an ambulance. She claimed that nowadays the sex & age of victims are asked so they can attempt to "match" the person in the back of an ambulance to the casulty to make them more comfortable. I also found it surprising that depending on the urgency assistance was required they would be selective with petrol/diesel ambulances. She gained this knowledge working with an ambulance service otherwise I might not have belived it.
I attended a first aid course where the instructor went through the list of questions we would likely be asked if calling 999 for an ambulance. She claimed that nowadays the sex & age of victims are asked so they can attempt to "match" the person in the back of an ambulance to the casulty to make them more comfortable. I also found it surprising that depending on the urgency assistance was required they would be selective with petrol/diesel ambulances. She gained this knowledge working with an ambulance service otherwise I might not have belived it.
One thing I am curious about - Every time I have had to use my mobile to call 999 (I do a lot of motorway miles and see some nasties) they always start by asking me my mobile number before taking any details. Why ? In these modern times the number should just be passed to their computer/telephone automatically. I work in Telecomms and everyone does this nowadays with link up to their customer databases. So is it really too much of a stretch to have my number flashed up ? Ive changed my number now and to be honest wont bother memorising it this time as I never get asked for it any more - if someone wants it I just flash it to them via IR/Bluetooth/Text - so I wouldnt be able to answer the question when asked...Would this cause me a problem if I dial 999 and dont know my number ?
Biddods, it is to make sure we have the number in case the call drops out. The 999 calls come from human operators who pass the number, and not automatically. It has been known for the operator to pass the wrong number which can be a disaster if we need your evidence.
If you don't know your number, it isn't a problem really as the 999 call taker, once the call has finished remains on the line until the operator comes back on to verify the number
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 21:30
If you don't know your number, it isn't a problem really as the 999 call taker, once the call has finished remains on the line until the operator comes back on to verify the number
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 21:30
jap-car said:In my experience, no.
Another thing, do the services triangulate the mobile phone call for the location? It can be very difficult to give a location on a motorway if you've not been paying attention to junction numbers.
Case in point. I was driving through East London about 4 months ago, when I saw 3 people (I can only describe them as total, utter knobheads) changing a car wheel in the middle of a 2-lane road.
I called 999 immediately, who proceeded to ask me "What is the postcode of the area the incident is in?" I replied that I didn't know, I was driving through it, but could give the name of the road, and of a junction it was near.
Bint on the other end of the 'phone told me "No postcode means we can't assist - sorry", as if she was being asked to do me a favour.
Tell me what is wrong with that statement ...
Oli.
She was wrong oli, a mobile phone can be triangulated pretty accurately, as we do regularly for concern for welfare type jobs or anything that requires attendance, or at least some details can be put into the log with a landmark or anything peculiar to the area.
Local officers generally know their beat, and will be able to tell where it is if the informant doesnt.
She obviously needs a talking to.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 23:50
Local officers generally know their beat, and will be able to tell where it is if the informant doesnt.
She obviously needs a talking to.
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 23:50
silverback mike said:
Biddods, it is to make sure we have the number in case the call drops out. The 999 calls come from human operators who pass the number, and not automatically. It has been known for the operator to pass the wrong number which can be a disaster if we need your evidence.
If you don't know your number, it isn't a problem really as the 999 call taker, once the call has finished remains on the line until the operator comes back on to verify the number
>> Edited by silverback mike on Monday 16th January 21:30
Hmmm but its normally the human (BT?) operator who doesnt know the number I am calling from so I have to tell them before they put me through....I guess technology hasnt reached the nether regions of the emergency services yet ;-)
silverback mike said:Hmm, interesting. And concerning. The thing is, I don't believe that this was an isolated incident - when relating it to a friend, he said he had a similar experience driving along the A40, and he saw a large lump of concrete fall from a skip on the back of a lorry. His wife called 999 pronto, and was asked for the postcode of the area it happened in. He also replied that he didn't know, but gave the road name and rough position (OS Grid ref as well - his missis is a smart cookie) and was told that they couldn't do anything.
She was wrong oli, a mobile phone can be triangulated pretty accurately ... Local officers generally know their beat, and will be able to tell where it is if the informant doesnt ... She obviously needs a talking to.
Anyway, all in the past, no point in grumbling now. FWIW, both incidents happened more than a year ago - has mobile triangulation come on-stream since then?
Oli.
On my daily wheels when out and about the phone is linked to the navigation unit. So in the event of a 999 one button press and connected to Mobile Emergency operator and real time location is flashed up which is by grid ref afaik. Maybe mapping technology allows a digital map display. Same if the airbags deployed but automatically. Ditto tracker stuff.
Mind you with all this tracking and interconnectivity these days occasionally I get a bit paranoid that somebody somewhere is looking at a screen and as the tea and custard creams are handed out observes that "I see old FiF is giving it the berries this morning.!
Mind you with all this tracking and interconnectivity these days occasionally I get a bit paranoid that somebody somewhere is looking at a screen and as the tea and custard creams are handed out observes that "I see old FiF is giving it the berries this morning.!
zcacogp said:
Anyway, all in the past, no point in grumbling now. FWIW, both incidents happened more than a year ago - has mobile triangulation come on-stream since then?
Oli.
There was a publically available website that could triangulate mobile phone numbers for free. It was open for all of 2 days before it shut down. The results from it were accurate to within about 1/2 mile for my phone.
p.s. I'll have a search, the site was discussed on here about 7-8 months ago....
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