Essex police - inane idiots

[mybrainhurts]

Have we discussed this yet?

Public order fixed penalty for raising a finger to a Talivan...

http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/swearing1feb06/

What an utterly disgraceful waste of police resources. These idiots should be sacked.

Public order legisalation should be used for that very purpose, not for petty, vindictive stupidity from miffed police officers.

I'm writing to the Chief Constable of Essex to tell him why I've declined to help my local force with regular information they've asked me for. Regain my respect and I'll do everything I can to help. Until then.....sod off, you incompetent idiots.

In fact, come to think of it...I'm going to make a public order complaint every time I hear someone swear. Come on, Essex, get that reported "crime" figure up....let's see how they like that.


>> Edited by mybrainhurts on Friday 3rd February 00:24

[mg6b]

mybrainhurts said:

Have we discussed this yet?

Yes!

mybrainhurts said:

I'm writing to the Chief Constable of Essex to tell him why I've declined to help my local force....

I am sure he or she will be mortified by your decision

mybrainhurts said:

In fact, come to think of it...I'm going to make a public order complaint every time I hear someone swear. Come on, Essex, get that reported "crime" figure up....let's see how they like that.

In that case you had better learn about where public order offences occur and in what circumstances. You had also better warn the swearer first about his/her conduct.

What you do need to do is to grow up, just like the childish person who is the subject of your post.


>> Edited by mybrainhurts on Friday 3rd February 00:24[/quote]

[mybrainhurts]

mg6b said:

I said: Have we discussed this yet? Yes!

Do you have a link? I can't find it.

mg6b said:

I said: I'm writing to the Chief Constable of Essex to tell him why I've declined to help my local force.... I am sure he or she will be mortified by your decision

If he isn't concerned about alienating the public, he's not fit to command. You lot (I assume you're a police officer?) can only succeed with public support. Thankfully, you're not all so blinkered; the officer who approached me was quite perturbed when I turned him down.

mg6b said:

I said: In fact, come to think of it...I'm going to make a public order complaint every time I hear someone swear. Come on, Essex, get that reported "crime" figure up....let's see how they like that. In that case you had better learn about where public order offences occur and in what circumstances. You had also better warn the swearer first about his/her conduct.

Absolute rubbish. You're really straining at the bit to get us behind you, aren't you?

If it's going to be routine to punish someone for expressing the contempt he feels, it's going to be routine to record every little thing that I find out of order. We must have balance. You've been picking and choosing what goes in the crime statistics for too long. Far too much goes unreported because victims know you'll not bother to investigate. If you lot want to take the soft option with fixed penalties for non-events, go ahead. Let's see how you fare when a flood of petty complaints swell the figures and heads begin to roll.

Senior police management is thoroughly incompetent and getting more rotten by the day. The officers who instigated this little fiasco will no doubt be destined for high rank.

[rayats]

Its funny how sensitive these camera van operators are. If we can believe the fly on the wall programs on policing of city centres when the pubs turn out, far worse things are said and done with no action being taken. Perhaps the motorist is the easy target.

If the police are upset about a bit of finger waving then I am very upset about the Dorset man who has been badly burned by the actions of Dorset Police in spraying pepper gas into his face - see his face in the local paper thats what I call obscene.

[puggit]

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=240188&am

[mybrainhurts]

Thank you, sir. I did search, but the topic title threw me.

[Tafia]

mybrainhurts said:

mg6b said: I said: Have we discussed this yet? Yes! Do you have a link? I can't find it. mg6b said: I said: I'm writing to the Chief Constable of Essex to tell him why I've declined to help my local force.... I am sure he or she will be mortified by your decision If he isn't concerned about alienating the public, he's not fit to command. You lot (I assume you're a police officer?) can only succeed with public support. Thankfully, you're not all so blinkered; the officer who approached me was quite perturbed when I turned him down. mg6b said: I said: In fact, come to think of it...I'm going to make a public order complaint every time I hear someone swear. Come on, Essex, get that reported "crime" figure up....let's see how they like that. In that case you had better learn about where public order offences occur and in what circumstances. You had also better warn the swearer first about his/her conduct. Absolute rubbish. You're really straining at the bit to get us behind you, aren't you? If it's going to be routine to punish someone for expressing the contempt he feels, it's going to be routine to record every little thing that I find out of order. We must have balance. You've been picking and choosing what goes in the crime statistics for too long. Far too much goes unreported because victims know you'll not bother to investigate. If you lot want to take the soft option with fixed penalties for non-events, go ahead. Let's see how you fare when a flood of petty complaints swell the figures and heads begin to roll. Senior police management is thoroughly incompetent and getting more rotten by the day. The officers who instigated this little fiasco will no doubt be destined for high rank.

Hey MBH,
Should I report a local traffic cop who was zapping drivers whilst hiding in his patrol car with just his scalp showing in contravention of the ACPO Code of Practice as foreworded by Brunstrom who said the CoP must be "strictly adhered to".

[mybrainhurts]

Tafia said:

Hey MBH, Should I report a local traffic cop who was zapping drivers whilst hiding in his patrol car with just his scalp showing in contravention of the ACPO Code of Practice as foreworded by Brunstrom who said the CoP must be "strictly adhered to".

Yes, yes.....but remember, he'll be in deeper trouble if he gave you a rude look.

[mg6b]

rayats said:

If the police are upset about a bit of finger waving then I am very upset about the Dorset man who has been badly burned by the actions of Dorset Police in spraying pepper gas into his face - see his face in the local paper thats what I call obscene.

Bad reaction that one. Never seen that before ever. It was CS spray not gas or pepper.

Strange we are not privy to the conduct displayed that warranted him getting a moosh full of jollop Not the sort of behaviour I would expect he would want anyone to know about either

[_dobbo_]

Oh yeah he probably deserved to have CS gas sprayed in his face from inches away and be scarred for life, he might have given an officer the finger.


edit to add...

Welcome back to PH by the way!


>> Edited by _dobbo_ on Friday 3rd February 15:29

[Mr Whippy]

Mg6b, you persistently say the perpetrator should grow up, so clearly they were not being violent, just petty.

So for petty finger waving, not in a violent manner, they get the full and undivided attention of the law.

Yet you say the police don't need to grow up and stop being offended, but the perpetrator? Well surely the police should rise above it? Saying "no, you grow up", "no YOU grow up" is just as bad as the petty criminal.

The police in this case would probably cry if you gave them two fingers from their response to just one. Wimps and wallies all in one!

Dave

[^Slider^]

mg6b said:

rayats said: If the police are upset about a bit of finger waving then I am very upset about the Dorset man who has been badly burned by the actions of Dorset Police in spraying pepper gas into his face - see his face in the local paper thats what I call obscene. Bad reaction that one. Never seen that before ever. It was CS spray not gas or pepper. Strange we are not privy to the conduct displayed that warranted him getting a moosh full of jollop Not the sort of behaviour I would expect he would want anyone to know about either

Likewise.

I read the news on this one with interest as we are moving from CS to PAVA.

People dont get sprayed for nothing.

I did read with interest that he got a 30s burst of the spray right agaist his face. Im surprised that 1) it had 30s in the can and 2) the officer him/herself didnt get affected by the blowback.

[mg6b]

^Slider^ said:

Likewise. I read the news on this one with interest as we are moving from CS to PAVA. People dont get sprayed for nothing. I did read with interest that he got a 30s burst of the spray right agaist his face. Im surprised that 1) it had 30s in the can and 2) the officer him/herself didnt get affected by the blowback.

Must have been 3 full canisters! All at 6 inches.
He must have been swimming in it.

[mg6b]

Mr Whippy said:

Mg6b, you persistently say the perpetrator should grow up, so clearly they were not being violent, just petty. So for petty finger waving, not in a violent manner, they get the full and undivided attention of the law.

No he got an £80 FPT which he can contest in court if he wishes.
That is not the full and undivided attention of the law.
He probably had their undivided attention for about 5 minutes whilst the form was completed. The officers would then have carried on with something more useful than showing him the error of his ways (possibly even contiuing with their camera duties).

Mr whippy said:

Yet you say the police don't need to grow up and stop being offended, but the perpetrator? Well surely the police should rise above it? Saying "no, you grow up", "no YOU grow up" is just as bad as the petty criminal.

Is giving 'the bird' a normal well adjusted adult type of reaction to something that is upsetting him?

Maybe a letter to the appropriate authority properly written explaining his feelings would have had a more positive response!

I remember this type of behaviour frequently in the playground at my school!

Mr whippy said:

The police in this case would probably cry if you gave them two fingers from their response to just one. Wimps and wallies all in one! Dave

Making abusive gestures to those in a position to do something about it is hardly the actions of a well balanced mind!

This sort of ming mong behaviour is seen every night in the streets of mosts towns and cities from people who have issues with authority and like to show their contempt for things they do not like. They are often dealt with in the same way!

I expect they too have the same opinion about police using their time differently.

You talk about respect.

Respect works both ways. The subject wonders why he is subjected to a penalty for his lack of respect. Had he restrained his urge to demonstrate his own small protest in that way, he may well have had the respect from the officers he deserved. That would have been the lack of a knock on his door!

No one complains about protest when it is within the law. When it steps out of that groove it becomes subject to the possibility of enforcement. Next time, I expect he will think twice about his actions and feelings.

Maybe those of you that conduct yourself in a similar way should learn from his mistake. If you do not, then be prepared for that knock on the door and 5 minutes worth of undivided attention from your local police

>> Edited by mg6b on Friday 3rd February 17:14

[rewc]

^Slider^ said:

mg6b said: rayats said: If the police are upset about a bit of finger waving then I am very upset about the Dorset man who has been badly burned by the actions of Dorset Police in spraying pepper gas into his face - see his face in the local paper thats what I call obscene. Bad reaction that one. Never seen that before ever. It was CS spray not gas or pepper. Strange we are not privy to the conduct displayed that warranted him getting a moosh full of jollop Not the sort of behaviour I would expect he would want anyone to know about either Likewise. I read the news on this one with interest as we are moving from CS to PAVA. People dont get sprayed for nothing. I did read with interest that he got a 30s burst of the spray right agaist his face. Im surprised that 1) it had 30s in the can and 2) the officer him/herself didnt get affected by the blowback.

The guy was described by eye witnesses as not being violent. Perhaps he was and that will come out in the course of time. Even if the Police thought he was such a threat that they had to spray him they took no action whilst he was in custody for over 12 hours to get him seen too, even though his face was blistering. People may not get sprayed for nothing but I hope when the do that it is serious enough to warrent it. i would have said that nobody gets shot by the Police for nothing until the cas of the guy getting shot carrying a chair leg and of course the case at Stockwelll station.

[trax]

I cannot believe that people are defending these mindless excuse of policemen who decided to give this person a fixed penalty notice. It is absolutely discusting that these morons were and are allowed to abuse their position in the most disgusting and vindictive way possible.

You can imagine them sat in the van, whilst contributing to death and distruction accross the country (but thats another matter). Look at him Jim, he's sticking his finger up at us, how dare he, does he not know I am a policeman. Ha ha says his Jim, his dimwitted sidekick, there's this new law out, we can pretend we are offended and get him for it. But I am not offended Bob says, just power crazy and like getting one up on people who dare to offend me. Doesnt matter though Bob, we can have him for it anyway, the git. Lets pack up and go round to his house, that will stick it to him. Yep, that will be fun, carnt wait to see his face.

This is not about anyone breaking the law, it is about two power crazy idiots who NEED disciplening, and are a disgrace to real policemen, going about real police business.

You couldnt make it up, you really couldnt.

[_dobbo_]

mg6b said:

Next time, I expect he will think twice about his actions and feelings.

Just to confirm then - next time I see a camera van I need to think twice about what I'm feeling in case I am committing a public order offence?

We're much closer to living in a police state than I thought. Oops better not think that either, you never know who is monitoring my thoughts.

Back on topic - for giving the middle finger this chap is fined? If that's not a spiteful retaliation on the part of the force in question then I don't know what is. Yet another public relations disaster for the police in a time they can already ill afford it.

[^Slider^]

rewc said:

^Slider^ said: mg6b said: rayats said: If the police are upset about a bit of finger waving then I am very upset about the Dorset man who has been badly burned by the actions of Dorset Police in spraying pepper gas into his face - see his face in the local paper thats what I call obscene. Bad reaction that one. Never seen that before ever. It was CS spray not gas or pepper. Strange we are not privy to the conduct displayed that warranted him getting a moosh full of jollop Not the sort of behaviour I would expect he would want anyone to know about either Likewise. I read the news on this one with interest as we are moving from CS to PAVA. People dont get sprayed for nothing. I did read with interest that he got a 30s burst of the spray right agaist his face. Im surprised that 1) it had 30s in the can and 2) the officer him/herself didnt get affected by the blowback. The guy was described by eye witnesses as not being violent. Perhaps he was and that will come out in the course of time. Even if the Police thought he was such a threat that they had to spray him they took no action whilst he was in custody for over 12 hours to get him seen too, even though his face was blistering. People may not get sprayed for nothing but I hope when the do that it is serious enough to warrent it. i would have said that nobody gets shot by the Police for nothing until the cas of the guy getting shot carrying a chair leg and of course the case at Stockwelll station.

I dont know the exact facts in this case i can only go on my personal experiance and the actions i was trained in as well as other on my shift.

CS is not treatable as far as i know and you literally have to wait for it to blow off you once its dried.

CS is deemed a secondary control measure, Baton being the first. In that context i would say if i or someone on my shift were to CS someone then it would be deamed necessary and i have to justify its use.

I read the witness was in fact a family member.

Who knows what happened in reality.

With regards to the other incidents i cannot comment as i wasnt there, i may have acted differently but i wasnt put into that situation. Who knows how people react when your talking lethal force ie firearms.

Anyway enough of the hijack.

[mg6b]

_dobbo_ said:

mg6b said: Next time, I expect he will think twice about his actions and feelings. Just to confirm then - next time I see a camera van I need to think twice about what I'm feeling in case I am committing a public order offence?

If you read the qoute properly and did not manipulate it then you would have your answer
You can think what you like. A bit unwise to show what you think if you commit an offence by doing so. Still if you feel brave or like a gamble why not?

dobbo said:

Back on topic - for giving the middle finger this chap is fined? If that's not a spiteful retaliation on the part of the force in question then I don't know what is. Yet another public relations disaster for the police in a time they can already ill afford it.

Just as it happens every night of the week on Britains alcohol soaked streets.
If you exhibit bad behaviour, you run the risk of being dealt with.
That is not too hard to understand, even for drivers who emulate amoeba.

Once again. Those people who are affected by legislation that curtails what they would like to do without penalty are the ones who shout loudest about this.
"Its not fair." "I want..." "Why can't I have..." "Why should I...."

Policing is not a popularity contest. There are many people who would not be impressed by his behaviour. You may think it petty to issue a penalty, I personally do not! I have the means to do something about it should I decide to do so . That is called discretion!




>> Edited by mg6b on Friday 3rd February 17:59

[_dobbo_]

mg6b said:

If you read the qoute properly and did not manipulate it then you would have your answer

I didn't manipulate the quote - your later emphasis was on actions, but nevertheless you stated that the person in question should in future consider what they felt

mg6b said:

Just as it happens every night of the week on Britains alcohol soaked streets. If you exhibit bad behaviour, you run the risk of being dealt with. That is not too hard to understand, even for drivers who emulate amoeba.

If "giving the finger" is a public order offence then freedom of expression in England has taken yet another blow. In an England where ASBOs are treated as a badge of honour because a toothless police force has little power to prevent 16 year old hooligans running rampant, exhibiting authority in this way demeans the police service.

In any case I think you are making my point for me. I'm quite certain neither the officers in question nor anyone else was offended by this chaps behaviour - since by your own admission you deal with this sort of thing every weekend from drunken idiots.

As for the comment about policing not being a popularity contest - remember that the police serve the public at the expense of the public and ultimately need the public... So no, you don't have to be popular, but I suspect it helps a lot to have the support of the public when it matters. Something that increasingly cannot be relied upon when things like this happen.

edit to add: Please know there is no rancour in my postings here - FWIW I've always enjoyed your contributions to PH even if I feel you do tend to "toe the party line" a little too rigourously.



>> Edited by _dobbo_ on Friday 3rd February 19:41