PACE letter - any successes / failures?
Discussion
As the topic title suggests I'm looking for feedback on the merits of submitting informatation requested by a NIP in a different form i.e
As this statement is provided under threat of criminal penalty [Funke v France] and as I have not received the caution required by paragraph 10.1 of PACE Code C [Mawdesley -v- the Chief Constable of Cheshire [2004] 1 All E.R. 58], I make this statement on the express understanding that it shall not be used or disclosed in any proceedings of whatever nature against myself.
Has anyone tried this, has it been successful or otherwise?
Shake me up Judy said:
As the topic title suggests I'm looking for feedback on the merits of submitting informatation requested by a NIP in a different form i.e
As this statement is provided under threat of criminal penalty [Funke v France] and as I have not received the caution required by paragraph 10.1 of PACE Code C [Mawdesley -v- the Chief Constable of Cheshire [2004] 1 All E.R. 58], I make this statement on the express understanding that it shall not be used or disclosed in any proceedings of whatever nature against myself.
Has anyone tried this, has it been successful or otherwise?
Why not ask the people who devised the letter. www.pepipoo.com???????
Sean
Just about to update my previous thread ( www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=231729&f=10&h=0 ) as I've received a letter from Bedfordshire Constabulary today. Not sure how it is going to pan out but from the content of the letter (which I've just realised I can't scan at the moment but will have to leave until tomorrow now), I appear to have both confused and pissed them off slightly.
Getting interesting......
By the way, don't use the exact wording as suggested on pepipoo, you are writing a Section 9 Statement of Witness, not a letter so delete the Dear Chief Constable bit and the yours etc at the end.
>> Edited by gilbertd on Thursday 9th February 00:52
Getting interesting......
By the way, don't use the exact wording as suggested on pepipoo, you are writing a Section 9 Statement of Witness, not a letter so delete the Dear Chief Constable bit and the yours etc at the end.
>> Edited by gilbertd on Thursday 9th February 00:52
I was succeessful with this but for a strange reason.
In short.
I got a summons.
It went to the mags to set a date for trial (i did not have to attend).
This prelim hearing was adjouned as apprarantly I had not told them of any dates that I could not make.
It went back to the mags to set a date for trial two weeks later (again did not have to attend).
I then heard nothing for a month so I called the court to find out when the trial was and was told it had been discontinued. I asked why and they told me to talk to Scameras.
The Scameras called me a week after my enquiry to tell me it was dropped because the camera operative was deceased. I asked for this in writing which I subsequently received.
Interested to understand from anyone with a legal background if they would drop this because of having no scamera witness as of course he had already made a statement. I am slightly sceptical.
Anyway, go for it. What have you got to lose other than an additional small amount of money. You can always change to guilty at a later date and at least you make them work for the cash.
Good Luck,
Matt
>> Edited by mattrosersv on Thursday 9th February 14:28
In short.
I got a summons.
It went to the mags to set a date for trial (i did not have to attend).
This prelim hearing was adjouned as apprarantly I had not told them of any dates that I could not make.
It went back to the mags to set a date for trial two weeks later (again did not have to attend).
I then heard nothing for a month so I called the court to find out when the trial was and was told it had been discontinued. I asked why and they told me to talk to Scameras.
The Scameras called me a week after my enquiry to tell me it was dropped because the camera operative was deceased. I asked for this in writing which I subsequently received.
Interested to understand from anyone with a legal background if they would drop this because of having no scamera witness as of course he had already made a statement. I am slightly sceptical.
Anyway, go for it. What have you got to lose other than an additional small amount of money. You can always change to guilty at a later date and at least you make them work for the cash.
Good Luck,
Matt
>> Edited by mattrosersv on Thursday 9th February 14:28
Every defendant has the right to test the evidence against him, usually by way of cross examination. Prosecution cannot rely on a witness that cannot be cross examined. There are rare exceptions where a deceased's statement can be submitted in court, so called 'deathbed evidence'. 'Deathbed evidence' is limited to circumstances where the witness makes an oral or written statement, fully aware that he is about to die. There is a presumption that those about to meet their maker will tell the truth. Shouldn't think this applied here and therefore the CPS could not rely on his past statement.
Kenp
Tut tut lets be correct it is known as a Dying Declaration...... explained admirably.
Matt: Presumably you didn't indicate after service of summons a Guilty plea.
Had you done so no doubt your wallet would have been lightened and three prickles on the DL.
Now't to do with PACE.
I'm still waiting to read a success exactly due to that. Still waiting for it to resolved at ECHR......
dvd
Tut tut lets be correct it is known as a Dying Declaration...... explained admirably.
Matt: Presumably you didn't indicate after service of summons a Guilty plea.
Had you done so no doubt your wallet would have been lightened and three prickles on the DL.
Now't to do with PACE.
I'm still waiting to read a success exactly due to that. Still waiting for it to resolved at ECHR......
dvd
DVD you are correct I did plead not guilty.
I read through a lot of posts before going the PACE route and I agree with you in that I did not see a successful challenge purely based upon PACE.
All of the 'I got off' posts were either dropped before court (Are these dropped because of PACE letter???) or were kicked out due to other reasons (mainly CPS or not following correct procdedure). Also seemed to be people getting off because they had not been provided video evidence.
I still had not decided whether to change my plea to guilty before the court date. I probably would have due to time for prep and the potential for me to have to go to court a couple of times.
I went with PACE as this was my little protest, I did not want to give scameras the cash, I had nothing to lose (except for an extra £50 or so) and I figured at least they would have to work for the money!
As I said before. Go for it, what have you got to lose. You never know it might even get dropped before it ends up at the Mags.
I read through a lot of posts before going the PACE route and I agree with you in that I did not see a successful challenge purely based upon PACE.
All of the 'I got off' posts were either dropped before court (Are these dropped because of PACE letter???) or were kicked out due to other reasons (mainly CPS or not following correct procdedure). Also seemed to be people getting off because they had not been provided video evidence.
I still had not decided whether to change my plea to guilty before the court date. I probably would have due to time for prep and the potential for me to have to go to court a couple of times.
I went with PACE as this was my little protest, I did not want to give scameras the cash, I had nothing to lose (except for an extra £50 or so) and I figured at least they would have to work for the money!
As I said before. Go for it, what have you got to lose. You never know it might even get dropped before it ends up at the Mags.
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