Discussion
Question
If I'm travelling down a three lane motorway at NSL in the nearside lane and I approach another vehicle which is travelling less than that in either of the other two lanes would I guilty of undertaking if I maintained my current speed and position?.
The reason for asking is that I see this sort of thing happening all the time on the M25 but generally not on any other motorways.
If I'm travelling down a three lane motorway at NSL in the nearside lane and I approach another vehicle which is travelling less than that in either of the other two lanes would I guilty of undertaking if I maintained my current speed and position?.
The reason for asking is that I see this sort of thing happening all the time on the M25 but generally not on any other motorways.
miniandy said:
Technically, you would be committing an offence.
Logically, as long as you have made an effort to get them to move in for you (flash of the headlights, wave of a fist!) then just breeze past in the lane you are already in. Saves any hassle. Just make sure it's safe...
What offence would that be then? My understanding from posts by the likes of DVD is that there isn't a specific offence of 'undertaking' but that you'd have to be done for Due Care or DD...
Very hard to show Dangerous Driving if it wasn't...
hedders said:
As far as i am concerned these days, its a free for all!
I often make better time by undertaking huge lines of cars sat in the two overtaking lanes.
You are not likely to undertake a cop car, so don't worry about it
I was stuck behind one the other day (not traffic) being driven in lane 3 at 70-80 when the two left hand lanes were free. I was tempted
Just to put another slant on my original point. If a sign on the m25 (for instance) says " stay in lane congestion ahead" then if the traffic in your lane is travelling faster (irrespective of speed) than any in an outer lane it's ok to pass on the inside.
I cannot see any difference between that and undertaking in general provided it it done with care.
I have half a memory of the government putting forward a bill to legally allow passing on the inside on motorways. I guess it got thrown out not having heard anything further about it.
I cannot see any difference between that and undertaking in general provided it it done with care.
I have half a memory of the government putting forward a bill to legally allow passing on the inside on motorways. I guess it got thrown out not having heard anything further about it.
smallgun said:
Question
If I'm travelling down a three lane motorway at NSL in the nearside lane and I approach another vehicle which is travelling less than that in either of the other two lanes would I guilty of undertaking if I maintained my current speed and position?.
The reason for asking is that I see this sort of thing happening all the time on the M25 but generally not on any other motorways.
I understood that 'undertaking' was perceived as being a deliberate movement to another lane (on the left) to pass another vehicle.
If you are already in lane 1, for example, and numpty is in lane 2 and going slower, then they are arguably guilty of DWDCAA. I would do what was suggested above - flash headlights, then if no reaction and lane 3 was busy, continue on your path WITH CAUTION.
But then not everything I do is necessarily legal, so don't take that as gospel, just as common sense.
Highway Code said:
242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
As posted already, motorway undertaking is not an offence in the UK but it can be frowned on by the BiB who have the powers to prosecute people for the offences of dangerous / careless / inconsiderate driving. I guess the BiB would make this decision based on the details of each case..
Anyway, the undertaking issue wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for the Middle Lane Morons hogging lanes 2 & 3. To me, their inconsideration and blatant lack of awareness / understanding of motorway rules and etiquette warrants at least a stop and 'little chat' from the BiB.
I'd be interested to hear what any motorway TrafPol on PH have to say on the matter and how they deal with 'undertakers' & MLMs...
havoc said:
Question
If I'm travelling down a three lane motorway at NSL in the nearside lane and I approach another vehicle which is travelling less than that in either of the other two lanes would I guilty of undertaking if I maintained my current speed and position?.
The reason for asking is that I see this sort of thing happening all the time on the M25 but generally not on any other motorways.
I understood that 'undertaking' was perceived as being a deliberate movement to another lane (on the left) to pass another vehicle.
If you are already in lane 1, for example, and numpty is in lane 2 and going slower, then they are arguably guilty of DWDCAA. I would do what was suggested above - flash headlights, then if no reaction and lane 3 was busy, continue on your path WITH CAUTION.
But then not everything I do is necessarily legal, so don't take that as gospel, just as common sense.
Yes, I do exactly the same, the MLH still look totally oblivious too, most of the time, makes you wonder where their head's at!
As far as I'm concerned anyone who pulls hard left and nails it up the inside is guilty of overtaking on the inside, henceforth to be called undertaking. This is regardless of the reason the vehicle ahead was not moving to their left.
Qualifying comment 1:- Often around the M-way network you can get a camel train in lane 3 due to elephant racing in lanes 1 & 2. Anyone undertaking in the manner described above should imo get a tug. (Yes you can argue that people should move to their left, that assumes that your journey is more urgent and important than theirs.)
Qualifying comment 2:- If the blockage is a MLOC member, or even worse L3OC member then the undertake is a bit more problematical, but if performed with restraint and proper signals and observation why should there be a problem? Of course one can take the chicken route, move left and let someone else move them out of the way, this usually works to be honest.
Qualifying comment 3:- For anyone undertaking because they have lifted their vision and taken an early position in the line of least resistance and behave as in 2 above again why a problem?
Then again regarding how I would./do undertake a marked car is by sitting behind in lane 1 say, when traffic in lane 2 slows down I just ease past by slowing down more slowly, IYSWIM. Then maintain station ahead so its obvious you are not extracting the wee, and gradually away you go.
As I say the problem children are the move sharp to left, hoof it hard up the inside, and move to the right at the last possible moment into a space that was never there in the first place.
Just my 2p not legal opinion or advice in any shape of form.
Qualifying comment 1:- Often around the M-way network you can get a camel train in lane 3 due to elephant racing in lanes 1 & 2. Anyone undertaking in the manner described above should imo get a tug. (Yes you can argue that people should move to their left, that assumes that your journey is more urgent and important than theirs.)
Qualifying comment 2:- If the blockage is a MLOC member, or even worse L3OC member then the undertake is a bit more problematical, but if performed with restraint and proper signals and observation why should there be a problem? Of course one can take the chicken route, move left and let someone else move them out of the way, this usually works to be honest.
Qualifying comment 3:- For anyone undertaking because they have lifted their vision and taken an early position in the line of least resistance and behave as in 2 above again why a problem?
Then again regarding how I would./do undertake a marked car is by sitting behind in lane 1 say, when traffic in lane 2 slows down I just ease past by slowing down more slowly, IYSWIM. Then maintain station ahead so its obvious you are not extracting the wee, and gradually away you go.
As I say the problem children are the move sharp to left, hoof it hard up the inside, and move to the right at the last possible moment into a space that was never there in the first place.
Just my 2p not legal opinion or advice in any shape of form.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff