Ferrari vs truck at 250kph

[victormeldrew]

I have received an email - you know the sort, from someone who forwards "jokes" to all their mates - which contained some images from a fatal crash involving a Ferrari and a truck. These are the most disturbing images I have ever seen.

The pictures of the Ferrari are bad enough - a crusher would struggle to do a better job. It's the pictures of the driver - or what is left of him - that really have an impact. Hats off to whoever bagged the remains; just disentangling them from the armco must have taken a while. The worst job in the world? No contest, that's it.

Yes, I can see why Trafpol's attitude to speeding is what it is, if that's the sort of thing they have to deal with.

>> Edited by victormeldrew on Friday 10th February 13:37

[towman]

Been there, done that. Worst case Big merc estate vs rusty Ford Orion at impact speed of around 160mph. Rear wheels of orion ended up in front of the front wheels. Recovery vehicles required to seperate wreckage. Not nice.

[mg6b]

Thanks Victor. No one is really prepared to listen to traffic cops who warn of the dangers of speed when it or something else goes wrong!

Can you see why sometimes posts from police officers are as they appear when they have been to so many of these type of incidents?

Still, Its never going to happen to any of us is it?

>> Edited by mg6b on Friday 10th February 11:29

[MartinD]

victormeldrew said:

I have received an email - you know the sort, from someone who forwards "jokes" to all their mates - which contained some images from a fatal crash involving a Ferrari and a truck. These are the most disturbing images I have ever seen. ...........

Yep , I had similar pics also sent through to me ,it said "not for the faint heated , This is what a 174 mph bike wreck looks like...courtesy of Oklahoma Highway Patrol"
first few shots ok , location & remains of bike , then close up shots of remains of rider in about 5 separate pieces, not what I was expecting , truly awful , makes me feel a bit faint just writing this & thinking about them. I cant imagine having to be there working.

[smeggy]

MartinD said:

Yep , I had similar pics also sent through to me ,it said "not for the faint heated , This is what a 174 mph bike wreck looks like...courtesy of Oklahoma Highway Patrol" first few shots ok , location & remains of bike , then close up shots of remains of rider in about 5 separate pieces, not what I was expecting , truly awful , makes me feel a bit faint just writing this & thinking about them. I cant imagine having to be there working.

I might have seen that one. I stopped looking as soon as I knew what I was looking at - it was a very sobering (!) sight.

Do you think a policy of showing these gruesome images to the motoring public would scare many into driving attentively and appropriately?

[futie]

Yep, think roadside coppers should be able to hand out a 'producer' style document which means you have to visit the local station and read through a book showing pictures of accidents, their causes and their victims.

I've seen some of these pictures and I consider it an important part of my knowledge. When I rolled a car years ago this was incredibly important as it showed me (a) how easy it was to do and (b) how simple it would have been to kill my passenger. The memory remains with me today and affects how I drive.

However, we've got to be careful not to over-compensate for this. Sure, they're shocking pictures, but this sort of stuff happens every day. It's just the way things are. It's easy to get a biassed view of this when you're close to it, but we've got to recognise that this is not a balanced viewpoint. The balance is that most journeys we undertake are not dangerous.

[Fat Audi 80]

mg6b said:

Thanks Victor. No one is really prepared to listen to traffic cops who warn of the dangers of speed when it or something else goes wrong! Can you see why sometimes posts from police officers are as they appear when they have been to so many of these type of incidents? Still, Its never going to happen to any of us is it? >> Edited by mg6b on Friday 10th February 11:29

Would you like a bigger brush for your tar?

I think you are preaching to the converted on SP&L

[whatever]

smeggy said:

Do you think a policy of showing these gruesome images to the motoring public would scare many into driving attentively and appropriately?

No. Too easily forgotten (in the heat of the moment) and there's always the "invincibility" thing to deal with.

After all, the death penalty doesn't act as a deterrent for murder in the US, does it? (Or maybe it does, and the figures would otherwise be much higher?)

[Fats25]

futie said:

Yep, think roadside coppers should be able to hand out a 'producer' style document which means you have to visit the local station and read through a book showing pictures of accidents, their causes and their victims.

This year whilst riding down to Gibraltar, I got pulled over entering Spain after the Andorran border by the Gardia (old bill!).

He explained that I had been going a bit too quickly down the side of the Pyrennees, but there was not a lot of traffic so he was not too fussed. The reason he had pulled me over was because I had my IPOD on. He explained that it was illegal in Spain. I asked if deaf people were allowed to ride motorbikes in Spain? He explained again that it was ILLEGAL IN SPAIN. He had a gun - my IPOD went in my bag.

As I was about to put my lid back on, he walked back to his car and came back with some leaflets for me and my mate. We put them straight in bag, and I thought what a waste of time/patronising etc. An hour later at the next petrol/fag stop I took a look at the leaflets, and was shocked at the content.

It showed accidents, how it happened, etc etc (all in Spanish), but quite a good shock tactic.

As to how it affected my riding? Honestly, probably for the rest of that day it made me think, until I got back on the day after.

[havoc]

Interesting approach Fats...probably more effective than our bunch.

[Mr Whippy]

mg6b said:

No one is really prepared to listen to traffic cops who warn of the dangers of speed when it or something else goes wrong!

Yup, the dangers of inappropriate speed need to shown for all to see don't they!

I always wondered why everyone who went on the German autobahns didn't automatically die or have an accident until I noticed the word *speed* needed prefixing with the word *inappropriate*

Dave

[victormeldrew]

Mr Whippy said:

mg6b said: No one is really prepared to listen to traffic cops who warn of the dangers of speed when it or something else goes wrong! Yup, the dangers of inappropriate speed need to shown for all to see don't they! I always wondered why everyone who went on the German autobahns didn't automatically die or have an accident until I noticed the word *speed* needed prefixing with the word *inappropriate* Dave

I was tempted to reply along those lines. There is no way that 150mph would be appropriate in proximity to a truck. As for where and when it might be appropriate, that's between each individual and the maker of his belief (or otherwise). For me, I imagine the images of my Ferrari's chump will flash before my eyes next time I hit 150mph. Maybe it will colour my perception of whether the speed is appropriate, and I may be a little more cautious as a result, but no way would I consider that speed is NEVER appropriate.

I do however fully understand the view of those who have to wipe up the mess. If I had to do it I wouldn't want anyone to ever go that fast either. Clearing up must be so much easier when all the bodyparts are a/ recognisable and b/ still connected.

[mojocvh]

Clean up squads are a funny bunch, have a certain way of doing their buisness, and surprisingly a very stong sence of compassion. Bit like the guys who do autopsys etc. It's a part of life that isn't for everybody.

MoJo.

[victormeldrew]

mojocvh said:

Clean up squads are a funny bunch, have a certain way of doing their buisness, and surprisingly a very stong sence of compassion. Bit like the guys who do autopsys etc. It's a part of life that isn't for everybody. MoJo.

I guess butchers would be similar. Not for the squeamish. Which rules me out big style!

[gregwatson]

I bet a motoryclist who comes off and interacts with a signpost at 70mph on a motorway doesn't look great either. So what?

If two cars are driving at 70mph, within the local speed limit, and they collide head on, it's going to be ugly. What on earth does that have to do with speeding? It has more to do with being tired, being drunk, having a poorly serviced car, having a heart attack whilst driving - or just being plain human and making a mistake.

[sp60]

gregwatson said:

I bet a motoryclist who comes off and interacts with a signpost at 70mph on a motorway doesn't look great either. So what? If two cars are driving at 70mph, within the local speed limit, and they collide head on, it's going to be ugly. What on earth does that have to do with speeding? It has more to do with being tired, being drunk, having a poorly serviced car, having a heart attack whilst driving - or just being plain human and making a mistake.

Mate, I think the point is more that in every day most people dont have to deal with this kind of thing, but some do, and it is not pleasant, whatever kind of person you are. It's not a pop at speeding or driver error or anything, just a pointer that this kind of thing happens regularly and it is not nice for the people that have to mop it up.

[gregwatson]

But the implication was made that dealing with this kind of thing explains why police might not like speeding - and the point I was making is that it is not speeding per se that causes this kind of admittedly horrific carnage.

[mg6b]

gregwatson said:

But the implication was made that dealing with this kind of thing explains why police might not like speeding - and the point I was making is that it is not speeding per se that causes this kind of admittedly horrific carnage.

You are right in that speeding does not often cause loss of control or collisions in or by itself. The fact that someone is travelling at high speed is more likely to have devastating consequences regardless of whos fault the collision happens to be when it occurs!

Travelling fast in motor cars is inherently more dangerous and a higher risk factor than travelling at a moderate or slower speed. That is indisputable!

More speed = less time to react
More speed = higher impact velocity

I accept that if a driver is concentrating fully and looking properly taking all the relevant actual and potential dangers into consideration, then there is a better chance that the reaction time will not be affected for that person by the higher speeds.

What about someone who has not appreciated how fast the driver is going and unwittingly gets in the way?
What about the driver who is not capable of planning well enough to anticipate and consider the relevant actual or potential danger but drives fast because they like to and think they are safe?

Those who travel at more modest speed when an incident occurs often have the opportunity of discussing with the third party about the blame aspect of an incident.

Those who travel at high speeds quite often do not and rely on relatives and a coroner to sort the problems out!

[focusonme]

whatever said:

smeggy said: Do you think a policy of showing these gruesome images to the motoring public would scare many into driving attentively and appropriately? No. Too easily forgotten (in the heat of the moment) and there's always the "invincibility" thing to deal with. After all, the death penalty doesn't act as a deterrent for murder in the US, does it? (Or maybe it does, and the figures would otherwise be much higher?)

And yet, in Oz, the TAC ads that graphically show the potential results of all sorts of situations - drink driving, speeding on country roads, speeing in built up areas (they treat these two things hugely differently, IIRC), driving whilst tired, young and inexperienced drivers, bikers, etc - have a marked effect on RTAs each time they're shown. If you keep the ideas fresh in people's minds, through repeated use of graphic imagery, the message will get hammered in more effectively than lightening their wallets.

So maybe it's a pretty good idea afterall - and not just bad drivers, but for all drivers at every level all the time.

Incidentally, for anyone interested there's all sorts of interest info at www.tacsafety.com.au.

>> Edited by focusonme on Saturday 11th February 17:19

[20vt_mk2dub]

mg6b said:

[quote=gregwatson] What about someone who has not appreciated how fast the driver is going and unwittingly gets in the way? What about the driver who is not capable of planning well enough to anticipate and consider the relevant actual or potential danger but drives fast because they like to and think they are safe? Those who travel at more modest speed when an incident occurs often have the opportunity of discussing with the third party about the blame aspect of an incident. Those who travel at high speeds quite often do not and rely on relatives and a coroner to sort the problems out!

No matter how many speed camera's, specs camera's etc you place this will never stop exactly that sort of behaviour...... better driver education is needed and problems like drivers not paying attention and pulling out etc will only be stopped by more effective policing and that MUST mean more police patrols and a return to the 3 E's.

Just saying that a driver who is speeding will cause an accident is very misleading and wholly inaccurate, as otherwise there would be thousands upon thousands of accidents caused every day.

Autobahns that have derestricted sections shower lower accident rates than some other sections...

A large research program was carried out in Montana USA, where speed limits where actually removed in test areas and accidents were seen to be much higher both before and also after the experiment, showing that speed is not the main cause.

As more and more police figures admit that speed is not the sole cause this must begin to flag up some warnings with people surely?

Of all the accidents in the uk a very small (below 10%) percentage can be attributed to speed.

The sooner that people realise it is the inappropraite use of speed in connection with the environment, conditions, vehicle etc that cause accidents and fatalities, the better.

I wont hold my breath though

>> Edited by 20vt_mk2dub on Saturday 11th February 17:42