Sensible Policing - Windsor Sat 18th Feb lunchtime
Discussion
Wanted to highlight encouter @ w/end that shows general perception can be misleading
Following a slow driver & getting ear ache from the Doris, my frustrations got the better of me at a r'about I under-took few cars on the inside & powered through the r'about into the outside lane to pass all the traffic. Guess I got to about 60 mph in a 50. no question, not a piece of driving to be proud of but bet most of us here have done it at one stage or another
Didnt spot the police bike on other side of r'about & quickly pulled me over
Could/should have been ticket time but.. In no short time, his educated talking to made me feel like school boy being told off by the headmaster! he wasnt nasty or agressive but the content & context of what he said really brought it home about safety, consideration to others & having a powerful car brings decisions that can have damning effects on myself & others
If I had just got ticket, probably would have whinged to mates in the pub & thought nothing more of it
however what he said made FAR FAR more impact & honestly, in the 250+ miles I have done since, I dont believe I have broken the speed limit at all!
Sometimes it really is words that speak loud than actions
To cynics out there, not posted to gloat but its such experience that make you a better & safer driver otherwise blaise "been driving for 10 years = good driver" attitude becomes prevolant
Following a slow driver & getting ear ache from the Doris, my frustrations got the better of me at a r'about I under-took few cars on the inside & powered through the r'about into the outside lane to pass all the traffic. Guess I got to about 60 mph in a 50. no question, not a piece of driving to be proud of but bet most of us here have done it at one stage or another
Didnt spot the police bike on other side of r'about & quickly pulled me over
Could/should have been ticket time but.. In no short time, his educated talking to made me feel like school boy being told off by the headmaster! he wasnt nasty or agressive but the content & context of what he said really brought it home about safety, consideration to others & having a powerful car brings decisions that can have damning effects on myself & others
If I had just got ticket, probably would have whinged to mates in the pub & thought nothing more of it
however what he said made FAR FAR more impact & honestly, in the 250+ miles I have done since, I dont believe I have broken the speed limit at all!
Sometimes it really is words that speak loud than actions
To cynics out there, not posted to gloat but its such experience that make you a better & safer driver otherwise blaise "been driving for 10 years = good driver" attitude becomes prevolant
Did you get his name?
Third party perception for sports car owners is something they rarely ever think about!
Drive a flash motor badly and the green eyes of revenge glare out in your direction.
There are many people who would love the chance to have a pop at a successful person and envy the position they are in being able to run a nice car/bike. What better ammunition when they show a few seconds of arrogance in their expensive toy!
30 seconds stupidity can see you with an NIP that you will probably not understand until disclosure of the facts after your NG plea for magistrates appointment.
The green eyes turn up at the nick wanting to make a complaint and are (sometimes) dutyfully dealt with to ease their anger especially if they have a witness.
Had a twonk recently in a yellow Elise playing the wide boy with a show of acceleration undertaking several vehicles in lane 1 of a dual carriageway as he left a roundabout at stupid speeds and then cutting into lane 2 with the narrowest of margins. I was off duty with a mate (not in the job). Imagine the surprise when I turned up later that evening and hand delivered his NIP. He is currently awaiting his disclosure docs for our recollection of the events in front of the referees
Third party perception for sports car owners is something they rarely ever think about!
Drive a flash motor badly and the green eyes of revenge glare out in your direction.
There are many people who would love the chance to have a pop at a successful person and envy the position they are in being able to run a nice car/bike. What better ammunition when they show a few seconds of arrogance in their expensive toy!
30 seconds stupidity can see you with an NIP that you will probably not understand until disclosure of the facts after your NG plea for magistrates appointment.
The green eyes turn up at the nick wanting to make a complaint and are (sometimes) dutyfully dealt with to ease their anger especially if they have a witness.
Had a twonk recently in a yellow Elise playing the wide boy with a show of acceleration undertaking several vehicles in lane 1 of a dual carriageway as he left a roundabout at stupid speeds and then cutting into lane 2 with the narrowest of margins. I was off duty with a mate (not in the job). Imagine the surprise when I turned up later that evening and hand delivered his NIP. He is currently awaiting his disclosure docs for our recollection of the events in front of the referees
mg6b said:
............. Imagine the surprise when I turned up later that evening and hand delivered his NIP. He is currently awaiting his disclosure docs for our recollection of the events in front of the referees
Must admit this leaves me with some very ambiguous feelings.
No doubt the Elise driver was in the wrong and deserved to be taken to task - just doesn't sit easy that an off-duty PC that's out with a mate should be able to act in this way and issue a NIP.
What was the actual offence - Dangerous? Without Due Care? Speeding? (Just interested).
Think what sits uneasy is that a PC on duty will be at a level of psychological awareness that a off-duty PC may very well not, and hence better able to rapidly assess a situation. Afterall if you're out with a mate you're relaxed and, I assume, enjoying yourself - on duty, you're 'switched on' and alert, or should be.
If we start going down this road, where will it end? Off-duty PC walking home from the pub with his mates - perhaps had a drink or two - you see where this is going ...........
As I said in opening - the Elise driver was in the wrong, but just can't feel 100% happy and confident in the means.
BigBob said:
Must admit this leaves me with some very ambiguous feelings.
No doubt the Elise driver was in the wrong and deserved to be taken to task - just doesn't sit easy that an off-duty PC that's out with a mate should be able to act in this way and issue a NIP.
What was the actual offence - Dangerous? Without Due Care? Speeding? (Just interested)
Due Care. Inconsiderate driving!
Speeding requires 2 officers. If mate had been bib we could have proceeded with that too!
Bigbob said:
Think what sits uneasy is that a PC on duty will be at a level of psychological awareness that a off-duty PC may very well not, and hence better able to rapidly assess a situation. Afterall if you're out with a mate you're relaxed and, I assume, enjoying yourself - on duty, you're 'switched on' and alert, or should be.
I am not a PC. I am a PS. Does that make any difference?
Bigbob said:
If we start going down this road, where will it end? Off-duty PC walking home from the pub with his mates - perhaps had a drink or two - you see where this is going ...........
Then no doubt those circumstances would be put in his statement when he saw the incident when he was walking back from the pub and no doubt it would be explored in court as well by any defence. Do you think that all police officers have an agenda to get people convicted by stitching them up and being economical with the truth? I think you will find they are in the minority these days!
Bigbob said:
As I said in opening - the Elise driver was in the wrong, but just can't feel 100% happy and confident in the means.
Why? I am a Police Officer. I swore an oath to the Crown to uphold the law. Anyone who does something in front of me whether on or off duty will be dealt with by discretion. In this case my discretion was that he needed sorting. I see lots when off duty that I choose to ignore
. I was off duty with a mate just before Christmas when I saw a shoplifter. Mate is bib. I nicked the shoplifter. Maybe next time I will take your advice because I might not be as alert
. >> Edited by mg6b on Monday 20th February 13:33
BigBob said:
............. Imagine the surprise when I turned up later that evening and hand delivered his NIP. He is currently awaiting his disclosure docs for our recollection of the events in front of the referees
Must admit this leaves me with some very ambiguous feelings.
No doubt the Elise driver was in the wrong and deserved to be taken to task - just doesn't sit easy that an off-duty PC that's out with a mate should be able to act in this way and issue a NIP.
What was the actual offence - Dangerous? Without Due Care? Speeding? (Just interested).
Think what sits uneasy is that a PC on duty will be at a level of psychological awareness that a off-duty PC may very well not, and hence better able to rapidly assess a situation. Afterall if you're out with a mate you're relaxed and, I assume, enjoying yourself - on duty, you're 'switched on' and alert, or should be.
If we start going down this road, where will it end? Off-duty PC walking home from the pub with his mates - perhaps had a drink or two - you see where this is going ...........
As I said in opening - the Elise driver was in the wrong, but just can't feel 100% happy and confident in the means.
I'm sorry, BigBob, but I am 100% behind m6gb's actions. There is one thing provoke the right foot a little over the limit (if done in complete safety) but another to potentially put other road user's at risk with careless/dangerous driving.
I only wish more off-duty BiB's would do it.
mg6b said:
[ Anyone who does something in front of me whether on or off duty will be dealt with by discretion. In this case my discretion was that he needed sorting. I see lots when off duty that I choose to ignore
>> Edited by mg6b on Monday 20th February 13:33
I must admit the off-duty policing sits a little uncomfortable with me..... but then again as you say discretion
trev r said:
Oh dear. This is proof to me that we live in a police state. You were off duty FFS!
What difference does that make? People bang on about not enough police around. They bang on about lazy good for nothing officers who shirk off work, fail to act and look for early retirement with a fat pension. You are now stating that policing shold only be relevant to someone who is within the time frame where they are actually being paid to patrol! How sad is that thought!
If it is any comfort to you, I sometimes go into work to finish stuff I was unable to do within my paid hours so that I can be more useful and more efficient the next time I come on duty. I do not claim anything for that time either but I am still doing it. Should I stop so that the people who 'PAY MY WAGES'
get an even worse service? If I was off duty and saw someone being threatened with a knife ( a potentially life endangering situation) I would not hesitate to deal with it. Because some people decide to put others in danger in different ways I am to ignore it just because they happen to be in a motorcar?
If you really think you live in a Police State, Go to another European country and try them out for size! You might be pleasantly surprised about how you are policed over here!
Trev. Just remember there are plenty like me out there who will deal with incidents whether they are on or off duty because we have a sense of public duty to everyone else who is reasonably law abiding. Sadly that includes ungrateful people like you!
"Rant over"
Obviously it is sad and ungrateful of me, yes, I agree with you
Go and catch some more motorists to up your quota then you could get promoted
Please don't use the usual idiotspeak of comparing a person enjoying a little yellow plastic car to someone threatening me with a knife! FFS
I've already lived in a European country where the police are aware of the laws but also aware that enforcing some of them zealously would not be for the greater good.
End of my rant
goodbye 
>> Edited by trev r on Monday 20th February 16:17
>> Edited by trev r on Monday 20th February 16:45
Go and catch some more motorists to up your quota then you could get promoted
Please don't use the usual idiotspeak of comparing a person enjoying a little yellow plastic car to someone threatening me with a knife! FFS
I've already lived in a European country where the police are aware of the laws but also aware that enforcing some of them zealously would not be for the greater good.
End of my rant
goodbye >> Edited by trev r on Monday 20th February 16:17
>> Edited by trev r on Monday 20th February 16:45
Plotloss said:
Not making a judgement one way or another but when you are off duty how can you issue NIP's? Surely you're just a civilian outside shift?
Like I say, not making judgements, generally curious.
I am a professional police officer. It does not matter when I am being paid or when I am not. My life is governed by a code of conduct not only when I am on duty but when I am off duty as well. The oath to the crown does not state that you will only perform your duty when you are being paid for your hours.
If I see what in my opinion is an offence worth dealing with whether on or off duty, I use my discretion as to
1. whether I deal with it
2. How I deal with it
That decision has more thought when I am off duty! If I deal with a crime when off duty I have the option of booking on and being on duty. If that happens to be on a rostered day off, I get paid a minimum of 4 hours at double time. For dealing with an NIP, I neither booked on duty nor claimed the overtime. The public got a good deal at that point.
The criminal law covers motoring offences as well as other Acts and Statutes. The more serious the breach the more likely they are going to attract attention.
Twonks in cars who act in a way that put others in danger are dealt with in the more serious category.
A member of the public has the right to attend a police station and make a complaint about any breach of any law. If there is someone there to deal with the problem, or more to the point someone who is willing to do so, even a motoring problem, a statement will be taken and the relevant procedures followed to bring that breach before a court. In the case of a motoring offence that requried an NIP, an NIP would be drafted and sent.
In my case, I cut out the need to attend and have my statement taken because I am capable of doing that myself! I know my powers and procedures and therefore am capable of dealing with this without any help from another officer.
Be very careful about how you perform out there as one day you may come across someone like me if you perform and your actions cross the limits of that officers discretion whether he/she is on or off duty.
I was off duty on ny way back from holiday last summer when a particularly obnoxious idiot in a football shirt sitting behind me became abusive to another passenger (female) who was trying to leave the plane and get into the Isle before him. There was no need, he was affected by alcohol and there were older people and children in his vicinity. I was on holiday in a jet on the tarmac at Stanstead. I dealt with that individual because he needed to be dealt with. Several other passengers thanked me for doing so. I can guarantee that if one of those alarmed or distressed passengers had been TREV, he would have remained silent. I can also guarantee that if TREV had been in my position he would have done nothing Isn't that right TREV?
>> Edited by mg6b on Monday 20th February 16:32
trev r said:
Well I had gone but then let you wind me up enough to come back!
Do you deny that quotas involving points being awarded for various "crimes" including motoring are used to measure performance?
Yes. Motoring offences are not included in performance data requiried by the Home Office from police forces. The only performance that is measured (save collision statistics) relating to motoring offences are positive and negative breath tests.
Individual forces and Individual departments may have performance criteria for their staff to meet and within the RPU that might include the issue of FPN's and other traffic related statistics. General Policing is not concerned with the collating of minor road traffic offences. Domestic Burglary, Street Robbery and Domestic Violence are the hot data statistics for general policing across the country and a thrust to increase all detections for recordable offences.
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