Sensible Policing - Windsor Sat 18th Feb lunchtime
Discussion
trev r said:
Please don't use the usual idiotspeak of comparing a person enjoying a little yellow plastic car to someone threatening me with a knife! FFS
You can kill somebody just as quickly and efficiently with the stupid use of a car as you can with a knife. I think mg6b was quite right to do what he did. I have seen some incredibly stupid life threatening driving in my time, and wish I could have done the same. It is good that bad drivers realise that there are consequences to their actions.
Off duty action is a difficult judgement to take. I had a similar story actually driving home day. Bloke driving like an absolute C
T in a Civic Type R on the A303. I invited him back to the nick the following evening (28 miles away) and gave him a "very stern talking to."
I've jumped in a few times over the years whilst off-duty. Recently I was unfortunate to be first at quite a nasty accident where the "big brother" of the at fault driver turns up and starts trying to hassle the clearly shocked and upset innoncent party to "not call the Police" - "we'll sort it out private like." I informed him in no uncertain terms the Police were already there, just off-duty and now was not the time.
I've caught a young lad shoplifting and marched him to the security guard. Phone call to mum in nearby Sainsbury's - bollocking delivered - 10 minutes of my time. Minimum fuss.
The difficulty an off-duty officer faces is that they do not have their radio, their personal protective equipment etc... Jumping in can be foolhardy. You never know whether someone has a knife or other weapon, concealed syringes etc... Sadly I've seen a few Officers, usually probationers, get themselves injured as they tackle say a thief, all for the sake of a few quid's theft. Can be better off making a discreet '999' and watching as best you can until back up arrives.
T in a Civic Type R on the A303. I invited him back to the nick the following evening (28 miles away) and gave him a "very stern talking to." I've jumped in a few times over the years whilst off-duty. Recently I was unfortunate to be first at quite a nasty accident where the "big brother" of the at fault driver turns up and starts trying to hassle the clearly shocked and upset innoncent party to "not call the Police" - "we'll sort it out private like." I informed him in no uncertain terms the Police were already there, just off-duty and now was not the time.
I've caught a young lad shoplifting and marched him to the security guard. Phone call to mum in nearby Sainsbury's - bollocking delivered - 10 minutes of my time. Minimum fuss.
The difficulty an off-duty officer faces is that they do not have their radio, their personal protective equipment etc... Jumping in can be foolhardy. You never know whether someone has a knife or other weapon, concealed syringes etc... Sadly I've seen a few Officers, usually probationers, get themselves injured as they tackle say a thief, all for the sake of a few quid's theft. Can be better off making a discreet '999' and watching as best you can until back up arrives.
mg6b said:
Well I had gone but then let you wind me up enough to come back!
Do you deny that quotas involving points being awarded for various "crimes" including motoring are used to measure performance?
Yes. Motoring offences are not included in performance data requiried by the Home Office from police forces. The only performance that is measured (save collision statistics) relating to motoring offences are positive and negative breath tests.
Individual forces and Individual departments may have performance criteria for their staff to meet and within the RPU that might include the issue of FPN's and other traffic related statistics. General Policing is not concerned with the collating of minor road traffic offences. Domestic Burglary, Street Robbery and Domestic Violence are the hot data statistics for general policing across the country and a thrust to increase all detections for recordable offences.
Thanks for increasing my knowledge. It's good to hear that it may only be a few individual forces doing this type of performance reporting.
I know that Essex police use/have used motoring offence FPN's when measuring the performance of new recruits, awarding a sliding score of points from serious to not so serious offences.
It doesn't feel right to me, when a force of new recruits are sent out on the streets to compete for the highest score using a formula like 2 x FPN = same points as 1 x Shoplifting. It's a bit too close to a company using software to measure the performance of its salesforce for my liking. I guess the performance has to be measured somehow though.
Is there enough crime to measure without the inclusion of motoring offences?
Think I just realised what initially made me feel 'uneasy' about your original post.
Read it back and THINK what it sounds like.
Please don't think this is in any way an accusation, it's not.
You knew what you meant when you wrote it, but to me reading it, I began to wonder whether the 'Green Eye' had kicked in and whether the same effort to punish would have been made if it had been a middle-aged man in a 'sensible' car doing something equally stupid.
No offence meant mate.
mg6b said:
Third party perception for sports car owners is something they rarely ever think about!
Drive a flash motor badly and the green eyes of revenge glare out in your direction.
mg6b said:
There are many people who would love the chance to have a pop at a successful person and envy the position they are in being able to run a nice car/bike. What better ammunition when they show a few seconds of arrogance in their expensive toy!
Read it back and THINK what it sounds like.
Please don't think this is in any way an accusation, it's not.
You knew what you meant when you wrote it, but to me reading it, I began to wonder whether the 'Green Eye' had kicked in and whether the same effort to punish would have been made if it had been a middle-aged man in a 'sensible' car doing something equally stupid.
No offence meant mate.
BigBob said:
Please don't think this is in any way an accusation, it's not.
I don't
Bigbob said:
You knew what you meant when you wrote it, but to me reading it, I began to wonder whether the 'Green Eye' had kicked in and whether the same effort to punish would have been made if it had been a middle-aged man in a 'sensible' car doing something equally stupid.
No offence meant mate.
I have no hankering for a sports car. They just do not do it for me. Now if you are talking about a Grade 6 Beretta Diamond Pigeon EELL, you might see some green eyes or of course a nice 'Boss' over and under!
I spent a whole day in an Elise last year teaching somone to drive it properly. I could not even get out of the thing without holding the roof edge and limbo dancing! Horrible car!!!
If it had been a middle aged gentleman or a woman or a kid or someones granda who had performed like that from a mini to a Bentley, they would have received the same treatment.
I just thought it was unecessary, dangerous and needed dealing with. I would hve loved to ping him with a dangerous charge but knowing the system, CPS would not have run it
mg6b said:
I would hve loved to ping him with a dangerous charge but knowing the system, CPS would not have run it
Doesnt this/or can this also carry a prisonable offence??? DD that is??... IF in the worst instance the CPS would as you state run with it, people would be going to jail for driving offences of this nature
Mr F
boarder72 said:
If I had just got ticket, probably would have whinged to mates in the pub & thought nothing more of it
however what he said made FAR FAR more impact & honestly, in the 250+ miles I have done since, I dont believe I have broken the speed limit at all!
I totally agree with this sentiment, and its a bit unfortunate that the thread's gone off course. I got 3 points for a particularly petty reason, and hence have exactly no respect for traffic policing anymore. Instead of learning from my mistake, I'm just incensed and feel victimised.
If I'd been treated in the way you describe then I would almost certainly be a better driver - now I just check for police cars and cameras rather than paying attention to the road. And drive like a tw@, obviously
. I havent posted oon the BIB bit for a while as when OFF DUTY i like top relax, but i popped in and...
The usual slagging match.
If youre PLOD, why bother saying anything, you'll be shot for it by someone at some point.
If youre not, you'll follow what the media tell you.
Speeding is a slight annoyance, but our roads are far more congested than ever and these "SCAMERAS" or speed enforcements devises are painted BRIGHT YELLOW.
Come on, use your eyes and look.
Nice to see the origional post talking about old friends at Windsor and educating. The best tool a PC has - DISCRETION. Dont lose it.
The usual slagging match.
If youre PLOD, why bother saying anything, you'll be shot for it by someone at some point.
If youre not, you'll follow what the media tell you.
Speeding is a slight annoyance, but our roads are far more congested than ever and these "SCAMERAS" or speed enforcements devises are painted BRIGHT YELLOW.
Come on, use your eyes and look.
Nice to see the origional post talking about old friends at Windsor and educating. The best tool a PC has - DISCRETION. Dont lose it.
Nice one mg6b, you're a better man than me. I learnt some time ago never to become involved in anything off-duty. Too much grief. A very sad state of affairs but there you go. How many "I wish a Police Officer had been there" threads have we seen on here recently? Yet certain people, when a Police Officer IS there and acts accordingly, are not then happy with the power-crazed bullyboy blah blah blah. Very sad. Nice to see lots of positive comments here too though, there are good people on this Forum........
mattiselvis said:
I got 3 points for a particularly petty reason, and hence have exactly no respect for traffic policing anymore.
No, Traffic giving you three points for a petty reason?! I've never heard such nonsense!
the traffic guys are great really and are never petty and i won't have a word said against them, really....
Sometime the hipocrisy of some members of this forum astounds me! 
As a BiB You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Well done to MG6B for his actions stated and please don't let certain members affect your ability to police on or off duty...
Cheers,
Steve
>> Edited by Fat Audi 80 on Wednesday 22 February 10:36
As a BiB You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Well done to MG6B for his actions stated and please don't let certain members affect your ability to police on or off duty... Cheers,
Steve
>> Edited by Fat Audi 80 on Wednesday 22 February 10:36
Slightly OT, but I was out getting statements today for a wounding job I'm dealing with. As I'm knocking on the font door of my witnesses house (in my suit of course...), I see a "Yoof" shinning up a drainpipe and in through a slightly ajar first floor window. Even though it was during the hours of daylight, and this isn't the most common MO, it was possible that said "Yoof" was a burglar. Offenders off their heads on heroin, or whichever their drug of choice may be, don't always think or act logically.
I radioed for a chuck up, and when my colleagues arrived, we went to the front door and knocked. The same "Yoof" I had seen moments earlier answered the door, and was quite anti when I explained who I was and why I was speaking to him (I didn't feel it necessary to identify my uniformed colleague, as it was obvious who he was).
"Yoof" then decided he was going back out, and took exception to (a) being told that he wasn't going anywhere at that moment, and (b) being taken hold of when he still tried to leave. He was taken inside and sat down.
Within a couple of minutes it was apparent that he was the son of the householder, and had let himself in via the window as he didn't have a key with him. His mother was spoken to on the phone by my colleague, who explained to her what was going on. "Yoof" was less than pleasant, and even less cooperative.
I and my colleagues then carried on with what we were doing. Once I'd taken my statement, I returned to explain to Mum what exactly had happened. She was more concerned that her son had been given suitable single syllable words of advice, and "manhandled" by the Police. Not a word of thanks that we had bothered to investigate who the person clambering into her house was (although I accept that we're duty bound to deal with it anyway).
I've also dealt with incidents off duty, the most recent being detaining a security guard who was "off duty", but had taken it upon himself to wander round the shops on a Sunday afternoon, carrying an expandable baton (an offensive weapon per se).
I radioed for a chuck up, and when my colleagues arrived, we went to the front door and knocked. The same "Yoof" I had seen moments earlier answered the door, and was quite anti when I explained who I was and why I was speaking to him (I didn't feel it necessary to identify my uniformed colleague, as it was obvious who he was).
"Yoof" then decided he was going back out, and took exception to (a) being told that he wasn't going anywhere at that moment, and (b) being taken hold of when he still tried to leave. He was taken inside and sat down.
Within a couple of minutes it was apparent that he was the son of the householder, and had let himself in via the window as he didn't have a key with him. His mother was spoken to on the phone by my colleague, who explained to her what was going on. "Yoof" was less than pleasant, and even less cooperative.
I and my colleagues then carried on with what we were doing. Once I'd taken my statement, I returned to explain to Mum what exactly had happened. She was more concerned that her son had been given suitable single syllable words of advice, and "manhandled" by the Police. Not a word of thanks that we had bothered to investigate who the person clambering into her house was (although I accept that we're duty bound to deal with it anyway).
I've also dealt with incidents off duty, the most recent being detaining a security guard who was "off duty", but had taken it upon himself to wander round the shops on a Sunday afternoon, carrying an expandable baton (an offensive weapon per se).
I have very good reasons not to respect the police (in Essex) when it comes to motoring matters, based on several real life experiences.
All I was doing was adding some balance to an overly pro-police topic.
It is becoming more and more like it used to be on this forum, too many police and scamera employess playing big brother, zzzzzzzzzz
All I was doing was adding some balance to an overly pro-police topic.
It is becoming more and more like it used to be on this forum, too many police and scamera employess playing big brother, zzzzzzzzzz
trev r said:
I have very good reasons not to respect the police (in Essex) when it comes to motoring matters, based on several real life experiences.
Fair enough. But surely by stereotyping all the BiB on here with the ones you are unhappy with just engenders the "us" and "them" situation even more (and I'm not particularly bothered who's the "us" or "them", to my mind, the terms are interchangeable anyway).
trev r said:
It is becoming more and more like it used to be on this forum, too many police and scamera employess playing big brother, zzzzzzzzzz
So reading between the lines, you'd rather we only enforced the particular laws that matter to you - whether motoring or otherwise? If you were (and I'm not for a moment suggesting you are) a burglar or a thief, then no doubt you wouldn't want us dealing with offences under the Theft Act 1968 when we were off duty?
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