Discussion
You hit the nail on the head justinp1.
I feel sure presented with such circumstances the majority of PH's would enter a NG plea for there is one question to be asked that separates balance of probability from beyond any reasonable doubt, the later being required to get a conviction in a criminal Court and not the former.
"Officer, please state categorically what was the colour of the light displayed when the vehicle crossed the stop line?"
Banjacksed.
From his position he cannot give this. HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT. Can only infer because his light was green then the other must have been at red (Balance of probability). He can do all the tests in the world but the simple fact remains he didn't see this so cannot prove (beyond any reasonable doubt) Latent malfunction that cleared etc.????
Quick submission No case to answer?
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 8th March 08:28
I feel sure presented with such circumstances the majority of PH's would enter a NG plea for there is one question to be asked that separates balance of probability from beyond any reasonable doubt, the later being required to get a conviction in a criminal Court and not the former.
"Officer, please state categorically what was the colour of the light displayed when the vehicle crossed the stop line?"
Banjacksed.
From his position he cannot give this. HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT. Can only infer because his light was green then the other must have been at red (Balance of probability). He can do all the tests in the world but the simple fact remains he didn't see this so cannot prove (beyond any reasonable doubt) Latent malfunction that cleared etc.????
Quick submission No case to answer?
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 8th March 08:28
The outcome will be in the hands of the gods AFAIC.
Was offered a FPN for 'not wearing a seatbelt properly' by trafpol. He had pulled out of a side road to my left in front of me, I had to swerve around him and gave him a look that was intended to portray "we all make mistakes then don't we".
He changed his mind about where he was going and followed me instead, stopping me after about 200 yards, then accused me firstly of not wearing a seat belt then 'not wearing it propewrly'.
Refused FPN and went to Magistrates Court, defending myself. The driver said in response to my question that he had a clear view and indicated to the court that the belt was on the OUTSIDE of my arm about halfway down my bicep. His observer also stated he had a clear view and indicated the position of the belt as UNDER my arm , against my chest.
So, two 'Experts', both having had a clear view, saw different things. I asked the Magistrates, that in the light of this varying evidence, and the fact that their vehicle had approached mine from the left hand (meaning that they'd have had to 'see' through the metal part of the door and my body to have a clear view of my right hand side) made it doubtful if not impossible that they could actually see where the seat belt was, to dismiss.
After about 30 seconds of whispered conversation between them:
"Fined £10.00, £50.00 costs"
If you want my advice, think carefully before you go contesting this and if you do decide to contest, be prepared for it to cost you more.
From my brief experience of motoring offences Magistates' Court, you have a choice if you are innocent - bend over and get shafted by the 'Vaselined' FPN or go to Court and get shafted without the 'Vaseline'.
Was offered a FPN for 'not wearing a seatbelt properly' by trafpol. He had pulled out of a side road to my left in front of me, I had to swerve around him and gave him a look that was intended to portray "we all make mistakes then don't we".
He changed his mind about where he was going and followed me instead, stopping me after about 200 yards, then accused me firstly of not wearing a seat belt then 'not wearing it propewrly'.
Refused FPN and went to Magistrates Court, defending myself. The driver said in response to my question that he had a clear view and indicated to the court that the belt was on the OUTSIDE of my arm about halfway down my bicep. His observer also stated he had a clear view and indicated the position of the belt as UNDER my arm , against my chest.
So, two 'Experts', both having had a clear view, saw different things. I asked the Magistrates, that in the light of this varying evidence, and the fact that their vehicle had approached mine from the left hand (meaning that they'd have had to 'see' through the metal part of the door and my body to have a clear view of my right hand side) made it doubtful if not impossible that they could actually see where the seat belt was, to dismiss.
After about 30 seconds of whispered conversation between them:
"Fined £10.00, £50.00 costs"
If you want my advice, think carefully before you go contesting this and if you do decide to contest, be prepared for it to cost you more.
From my brief experience of motoring offences Magistates' Court, you have a choice if you are innocent - bend over and get shafted by the 'Vaselined' FPN or go to Court and get shafted without the 'Vaseline'.
"bend over and get shafted by the 'Vaselined' FPN or go to Court and get shafted without the 'Vaseline'".
Ive had that treatment before and im still sore so cant do with another.
ive already got 6 point and cant afford to get another poss 3 at the age of 23!
i really hope i found not guilty and with the help of PH i think ive got a good case!
Ive had that treatment before and im still sore so cant do with another.
ive already got 6 point and cant afford to get another poss 3 at the age of 23!
i really hope i found not guilty and with the help of PH i think ive got a good case!
BigBob said:
The outcome will be in the hands of the gods AFAIC.
Was offered a FPN for 'not wearing a seatbelt properly' by trafpol. He had pulled out of a side road to my left in front of me, I had to swerve around him and gave him a look that was intended to portray "we all make mistakes then don't we".
He changed his mind about where he was going and followed me instead, stopping me after about 200 yards, then accused me firstly of not wearing a seat belt then 'not wearing it propewrly'.
Refused FPN and went to Magistrates Court, defending myself. The driver said in response to my question that he had a clear view and indicated to the court that the belt was on the OUTSIDE of my arm about halfway down my bicep. His observer also stated he had a clear view and indicated the position of the belt as UNDER my arm , against my chest.
So, two 'Experts', both having had a clear view, saw different things. I asked the Magistrates, that in the light of this varying evidence, and the fact that their vehicle had approached mine from the left hand (meaning that they'd have had to 'see' through the metal part of the door and my body to have a clear view of my right hand side) made it doubtful if not impossible that they could actually see where the seat belt was, to dismiss.
After about 30 seconds of whispered conversation between them:
"Fined £10.00, £50.00 costs"
If you want my advice, think carefully before you go contesting this and if you do decide to contest, be prepared for it to cost you more.
Ya55erm - think carefully my friend, the above is exactly why you are going to get fikked in court.
2 'respectable' witnesses gave conflicting evidence, 1 version of which cleared the defendent. Also, desite both witnesses were not able to see what they described.
Then BB got done.
So will you.
By the way, you should still contest it. But you are going to get done.
ya55erm said:
Do you recon its worth trying to dismiss there evidence?
IMHO - If you are 110% convinced you are not guilty the only way to fight this is with a heavyweight lawyer on your team.
At least then you'll have someone well versed in Courtroom procedures who won't be 'bullied' or bamboozled.
Again, it depends on how much your license means to you - is it worth possibly a grand or more in legal fees if you still lose or even if you win but fail to get costs awarded.
Tough call but it's one only you can make.
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