Set the pace - Make the commitment
Discussion
safespeed said:
But is that a yes or a no?
If the speed limit is of no consideration & the overtake is safe, overtake with deliberation.
If the speed limit applies to you, don't overtake unless you can do so safely whilst remaining within the law. It should be covered within your plan for the overtake.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 21:06
vonhosen said:
But is that a yes or a no?
If the speed limit is of no consideration & the overtake is safe, overtake with deliberation.
If the speed limit applies to you, don't overtake unless you can do so safely whilst remaining within the law. It should be covered within your plan for the overtake.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 21:06
I'm sorry to press you on this, but you still haven't answered the question. You probably noticed that it was phrased quite carefully. Here it is again:
safespeed said:
Do you think that 'avoiding speeding' while overtaking is best practice?
I recently overtook an HGV on an NSL single carriageway. as i was doing my 'mirror, gear, position' i realised a trafpol BMW was behind me also lining up to overtake.
I continued with my overtake which I could have completed safely at 60 but as conditions were good and someone else also wanted to use the section of road for an overtake I pressed up to an indicated 75. The trafpol did likewise. i then reeturned to indicated 65ish, they followed for 1/2 a mile and then overtook me.
Guess they approved of my choice of speed on overtake.
If the idea of deliberately engineering roads to make it more difficult to overtake is correct then it confirms my theory that road policy in this country is increasingly the domain of loonies.
I continued with my overtake which I could have completed safely at 60 but as conditions were good and someone else also wanted to use the section of road for an overtake I pressed up to an indicated 75. The trafpol did likewise. i then reeturned to indicated 65ish, they followed for 1/2 a mile and then overtook me.
Guess they approved of my choice of speed on overtake.
If the idea of deliberately engineering roads to make it more difficult to overtake is correct then it confirms my theory that road policy in this country is increasingly the domain of loonies.
safespeed said:
But is that a yes or a no?
If the speed limit is of no consideration & the overtake is safe, overtake with deliberation.
If the speed limit applies to you, don't overtake unless you can do so safely whilst remaining within the law. It should be covered within your plan for the overtake.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 21:06
I'm sorry to press you on this, but you still haven't answered the question. You probably noticed that it was phrased quite carefully. Here it is again:
safespeed said:
Do you think that 'avoiding speeding' while overtaking is best practice?
I think that my statement has answered that.
If you are going to overtake & it is safe, then it is best done briskly.
(but there is of course no point embarking on an overtake where it is not possible for you to gain a decent speed differential between you and the vehicle you are overtaking)
BliarOut said:
Ity could be argued that looking at your speedo during an overtake IS DWDCA.
indeed, i would agree fully. but nowadays it has unfortunately become 2nd nature when police or camera are around.
to be fair though i had actually identified a good 40s minimum window of clear road before i did the mirror then speedo check.
Normally overtaking at that location i would imagine my speedo could read something altogether different. I wouldn't know what though as i genuinely consider it unimportant. I receive far more info from the steering wheel, chassis and closing speed of visible road that determines what i do with the gears'n'pedals.
Good point though, i may have to remember that one day if i come across less sensible trafpol!
vonhosen said:Because you're not looking where you're going.
Ity could be argued that looking at your speedo during an overtake IS DWDCA.
Why ?
Simple if you think about it. If I took my eyes off the road to look at the radio and had a crash it's DWDCA. What's the difference if I take my eyes off the road to look at the speedo?
Hint, none. I'm still not watching for hazards while my eyes are inside the car.
Speedo gawping is dangerous and not taught on any advanced driving system I am aware of.
vonhosen said:
I'm sorry to press you on this, but you still haven't answered the question. You probably noticed that it was phrased quite carefully. Here it is again:
safespeed said:
Do you think that 'avoiding speeding' while overtaking is best practice?
I think that my statement has answered that.
If you are going to overtake & it is safe, then it is best done briskly.
(but there is of course no point embarking on an overtake where it is not possible for you to gain a decent speed differential between you and the vehicle you are overtaking)
OK thanks. So what are we to do if a responsible driver happens to graze into the prosecutable zone while safely overtaking?
The choices are:
a) Blanket the roads (well some of the roads) with and try to take a bite out of his driving licence despite the fact that he is employing best practice. Of course he'll respond to this by spending time looking for cameras as well as making the usual safety checks. He'll certainly be less safe as a result. One day he might even end up unwisely aborting a perfectly safe overtake because a camera comes into view.
b) Recognise that the over zealous application of the speed limit laws could be counterproductive. And instead apply a fair degree of discretion depending on the safe and appropriate behaviour of the individual.
These saddo muppets will become targets to pick off at will. Plus they will be run off the road by somebody with a destination to get to in this lifetime!
I can see the headlamps flashing in my mirrors already. Do you know what, I don't care if I get stuck at the lights and they come crawling up behind me, at least I got past, it'll be a challenge to beat them
I drive faster nowadays to prove that the system is flawed and to make up for wasted time elsewhere. Must really p**s of the people who crawl along at a righteous pace doing their bit, but hey, that's just the fun part
Boosted.
I can see the headlamps flashing in my mirrors already. Do you know what, I don't care if I get stuck at the lights and they come crawling up behind me, at least I got past, it'll be a challenge to beat them
I drive faster nowadays to prove that the system is flawed and to make up for wasted time elsewhere. Must really p**s of the people who crawl along at a righteous pace doing their bit, but hey, that's just the fun part Boosted.
BliarOut said:
Ity could be argued that looking at your speedo during an overtake IS DWDCA.
Why ?
Simple if you think about it. If I took my eyes off the road to look at the radio and had a crash it's DWDCA. What's the difference if I take my eyes off the road to look at the speedo?
Hint, none. I'm still not watching for hazards while my eyes are inside the car.
Speedo gawping is dangerous and not taught on any advanced driving system I am aware of.
Why do you need to gawp at it ?
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
The required information can be gained in a fraction of a second. You'll be saying best not blink when driving next.
In advanced driving you are expected to know your speed.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 22:15
I don't understand this speedo thing. Many people quote it as distracting from driving. I think it's just one of the inputs to driving well. Knowing your speed is a key input in the driving plan. It's trivial to do and important to know.
It takes a very small percentage of attention to know the speed you are going. If you need to add that percentage back to keep safe then in my experience the margin of safety is too small.
I think that as the govt can be accused of using the speed kills as dogma, then the group of people who are in the diametrically opposed camp (I'm nervous of finding the right label) use an equally dogmatic position.
"looking at the speedo takes time away from outside observation so adds to danger. Therefore I shouldnt be penalised for going faster than the speed limit".
Countering dogma with dogma is not a very persuasive argument for me.
Graham
It takes a very small percentage of attention to know the speed you are going. If you need to add that percentage back to keep safe then in my experience the margin of safety is too small.
I think that as the govt can be accused of using the speed kills as dogma, then the group of people who are in the diametrically opposed camp (I'm nervous of finding the right label) use an equally dogmatic position.
"looking at the speedo takes time away from outside observation so adds to danger. Therefore I shouldnt be penalised for going faster than the speed limit".
Countering dogma with dogma is not a very persuasive argument for me.
Graham
safespeed said:
OK thanks. So what are we to do if a responsible driver happens to graze into the prosecutable zone while safely overtaking?
The choices are:
a) Blanket the roads (well some of the roads) with and try to take a bite out of his driving licence despite the fact that he is employing best practice. Of course he'll respond to this by spending time looking for cameras as well as making the usual safety checks. He'll certainly be less safe as a result. One day he might even end up unwisely aborting a perfectly safe overtake because a camera comes into view.
b) Recognise that the over zealous application of the speed limit laws could be counterproductive. And instead apply a fair degree of discretion depending on the safe and appropriate behaviour of the individual.
Where cameras are going to be situated, you would have been warned it is a camera site area by signage. These will be identified targeted areas, so don't start to overtake in them if you can see you would have to exceed the limit to do so.
vonhosen said:Big difference.
{Speedo gawping} Why do you need to gawp at it ?
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
The required information can be gained in a fraction of a second.
The rationale for looking at a speedo during an overtake is what? In reality and in this thread, it's to obtain information primarily relating to legality, not safety. The reason for checking mirrors is what? To obtain information primarily related to safety.
As many people have said many times, safety and the law have parted company and this is a very serious systemic problem.
turbobloke said:
{Speedo gawping} Why do you need to gawp at it ?
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
The required information can be gained in a fraction of a second.
The rationale for looking at a speedo during an overtake is what? In reality and in this thread, it's to obtain information primarily relating to legality, not safety. The reason for checking mirrors is what? To obtain information primarily related to safety.
As many people have said many times, safety and the law have parted company and this is a very serious systemic problem.
I'm only asking why glancing at the speedo for a fraction of a second is dangerous or careless ?
The answer simply is it isn't.
Where there I close on a slower moving vehicle & judge that I can't make the overtake without achieving a suitable speed differential to pass safely & remain lawful, then I won't go on the overtake. Looking at the speedo becomes a non issue during the overtake then, because there won't be one.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 22:25
turbobloke said:
{Speedo gawping} Why do you need to gawp at it ?
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
The required information can be gained in a fraction of a second.
The rationale for looking at a speedo during an overtake is what? it's to obtain information primarily relating to legality, not safety. The reason for checking mirrors is what? To obtain information primarily related to safety.
Very valid point.
Boosted.
turbobloke said:
snip
The rationale for looking at a speedo during an overtake is what? In reality and in this thread, it's to obtain information primarily relating to legality, not safety. The reason for checking mirrors is what? To obtain information primarily related to safety.
As many people have said many times, safety and the law have parted company and this is a very serious systemic problem.
>> Edited by gridgway on Saturday 25th March 22:40
Deltafox said:
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
One is a necessary check, the other isnt, so why do it?
I consider being aware of the amount of speed one is carrying a necessary check.
In relation to overtakes ....see my post above.
It becomes a non issue if having checked your speed before commencing the overtake, you aren't going.
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