vonhosen 2

[Mad Moggie]

turbobloke said:

vonhosen said: Pray why do I need power available sooner than I have it available with seperation on road ? Because you're the only one who knows about your 'driving plan', and power is a means of removing yourself from unexpected and unpredictable danger. Why, vh, are you saying you coast along in neutral for long periods - to conserve fuel maybe or just to keep the noise down - cos it's safe? That wasn't what Wildy means by COAST

Nope... she means C O A S T .. a driving plan. She also has H A F E N - German word for "harbour"

COAST's similar to "politeness, observation, what if, distance, emergency.." how it apparently translates

When you live with Wildy .. you learn her lingo.... I need to know what she's on about and what she's REALLY saying to the kids!

[vonhosen]

turbobloke said:

vonhosen said: turbobloke said: vonhosen said: Pray why do I need power available sooner than I have it available with seperation on road? Because you're the only one who knows about your 'driving plan', and power is a means of removing yourself from unexpected and unpredictable danger. I don't suffer from this problem not generally using heel toe on road. If you lift the left foot and cause engine revs to rise under engine braking, rather than match revs to the selected gear, you are going to have to crash the upchange to be able to get back on the power as quickly as with heel and toe, and that might just exceed available grip as well as being clumsy and uncomfortable. There's a lot to be said for h&t if the car's pedals will allow it.

But on road I am seperating so it's a non issue, why do I need to heel toe & not seperate ?
I don't need the power sooner than planned & I am going to be matching engine revs with road speed for my gears, they are smooth. What extra are you suggesting heel toe is going to offer me in all my changes ?

I know how to do it & I'll use it where I feel a need, but on road that is going to be very rare, why are you suggesting that I make it a stock change on road ?

You seem preoccupied with speed to get back on the power, I am not worried about a few tenths of a second here or there on road

turbobloke said:

vonhosen said: turbobloke said: Why, vh, are you saying you coast along in neutral for long periods - to conserve fuel maybe or just to keep the noise down - cos it's safe? Who coasts? My point was a general one of principle, I honestly didn't imagine you did. The point was also about having the car ready to respond to input from the accelerator being a good idea. While your engine revs are still whining and winding up on what most folk would call a 'normal' upchange, a deft heel and toe will put the car in gear ready for power asafp and the choice is then with the driver. It can be several seconds while you wait for the wind-up otherwise. As with the glance at the speedo, one could get the impression that the cars you're referring to don't change speeds very easily, or you don't require them to, as you seem not to be very concerned about time spent doing pointless things. I suspect the difference here is a) types of car driven and b) reason for driving them? Who knows. However, if I'm on the wrong end of a pointy stick please point it again as I'm always willing to learn something new.

Why the preoccupation with power asap ?
When I take a gear it is because there is no danger, if there is I'm not going for a gear, so there is no rush with it.







>> Edited by vonhosen on Friday 7th April 22:10

[Mad Moggie]

vonhosen said:

TripleS said: vonhosen said: ....there is nothing wrong with feeding the wheel, it is a perfectly good safe, smooth & reliable steering method. Other steering methods have circumstances where they are most beneficial. I'll utilise the most appropriate method for the circumstances, but for on road driving in most situations pull-push actually performs very well. I'm glad you said that, Von. Let us be free to use whatever technique enables the individual driver to get the best result. Oh, and when you have a minute can you nip over to A-D and just put JJ25 right. I'm afraid I've upset him a bit on this issue. Best wishes all, Dave. Dave You know my view on it. You know I use a variety of methods (as discussed previously, some of which you don't like ) for different things. >> Edited by vonhosen on Friday 7th April 20:31

Dave .. IG told you over on safespeed .. you steer to your comfort and you blend/integrate IAM practice with your own best style..

IG also said that the IAM examiner is looking for smooth, safe, stylish, systematic... so long as you demonstrate these.. and show a range of rotational, pull/push/feed /ixed input and aware of any wheel feed back .. you should be fine!

The geared up one knows what he's on about... he's a "super person in gear"

Although .. each time he's your passenger .. tis like being on yer test

About the only person who can tame a wild feline we all know...

[Mad Moggie]

vonhosen said:

Mad Moggie said: But ... you live in lah -lah land if you think these schools do not teach towards a driving test pass. Go to the roads in use by ANY test centre.. they are there practising... ALL OF THEM! ALL LISTED IN PHONE BOOKS! This is what keeps getting trotted out "They all only teach to pass" & I am saying that is plainly a lot of tosh. Not "ALL" only do that, of course some do, but some "DON'T". All I'm saying is, it's no good complaining they only teach to pass a test, when you picked them. Especially as there are "SOME" out there that don't just do that. (See Mr Whippy's reply @ 17:11hrs ) >> Edited by vonhosen on Friday 7th April 21:40 >> Edited by vonhosen on Friday 7th April 21:42

No disrespect to Dave (Whippy) .. but things just ain/t the same these days.

My own instructor informed me that I was now in control of something which could kill me and my pals and he was going to make sure I knew how to control each aspect of my driving. He said it in a rather unforgetable tone of voice.. my 17th birthday...

Wildy had to prove to her father she had earned the privilege of his paying for her lessons by demonstrating knowledge of a car.. inside and out.. road safety and common sense. She had a similar type of instructor..

We did in those days.. the "grown ups" were not afraid of "hurting one's feelings"

Today? You have to prop these kids up.. boost their egos.. massage their self esteem....and the nub.. all driving schools tell you their pass rates before you even ask them... Currently got this with the twins... All tell me about how quickly my second sassier son and his even sassier sister (junior version of Wildy ) will qualify ...if I choose them.. does not matter if the AA/RAC/BSM or Joe Bloggs the sole trading ADI...

As said - I picked a driving school to provide the basics.. before William took to the roads in our cars for practice.

He's a natural.. and steady as mentioned.

This lad had lessons with four UK police officers - all Hendon trained.. plus two Swiss traffic officers and one Canadian Mountie.

The kid can .. um ..well.. drive and handle a car with some decency though say so myself


I then booked a further block of lessons to tighten up for the test itself.


We bought an 18 month old Astra for his use - and plan to buy similar for the twins later..

Once William passed .. we did not allow him to drive for 24 hours to let the euphoria pass.. and then we went out with him.. again.. and we even followed his solo drive at a distance. His first motorway drive ... with me as passenger .. and his solo drive? Wildy followed him...

Twins? We have some leeway with when their birthday falls... This pair egg each other one.. compete "healthily" with each other .. another thing we are taking into account when choosing their teachers and initial lesson times. The same BiB family and rest of family will be involved anyway

[KB_S1]

Mad Moggie,

your approach to teaching and allowing your kittens to learn should be applauded.
I was lucky in that a family friend who was an ADI and and ADI instructor and all sorts of other qualification and experience guy took me on.
His approach was, yes I have a high pass rate but i am going to teach you how to drive and then we will do a couple of lessons on passing your test.
He offered a free M/way lesson the next week and then 18 months later he started putting me through ROSPA and IAM style tuition for petrol money.
It has served me very well. if only he taught me how to avoid speed traps

[TripleS]

vonhosen said:

TripleS said: turbobloke said: [quote=vonhosen]Generally when manoeuvring, feeding the wheel is fine, but there's nothing wrong with moving to fixed input steering on the road when it will serve you better. Whichever suits. But out on the open road fixed grip steering would be the norm, and suitable for large radius bends, and you would change from that (maybe to pull-push) when you arrive at a sharp corner, would you not? ...or am I making hard work of this? Best wishes all, Dave. Why is pull steering a problem in large radius bends ?

Sorry Von, I seem to have caused some confusion. I didn't mean to suggest that it would be a problem. What I meant was that large radius bends can usually be taken with a fixed grip (probably 9 and 3 rather than 10 and 2 on the clock face) and your hands don't need to be repositioned as in the pull-push style. This assumes of course that you don't have low geared steering, i.e. a lot of turns lock to lock*.

I simply envisaged that with modern high geared steering systems a good deal of open road driving would be catered for with hands placed at 9 and 3, and that they might move through the range between 7/1 and 11/5, i.e. 60 degrees of steering wheel rotation. Much more than that and I would be changing my grip I think.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

* Like the old 3.8 Jaguar - no rack and pinion steering, no power assistance, and something approaching four turns lock to lock! Don't we have things easy these days?

[WildCat]

7db said:

WildCat said: He even experienced how to deal with full range of mumpties... I like that. Are they like numpties, only driving 4x4's on the school run? I think you have created a good word there...

Ja... They are the ones who park on the zig zags...the yellow marks ... two abreast.. block roads....swear at others who are trying to drive past them.. und have scant regard for other people's kittens...


He managed to cope with them - we made him drive to school a few times to get him used to all kinds of situations - rush peak mornings .. und mumpties... We will be doing similar with the twins ..If you can negotiate hazard of mumpty ... you can cope with pretty much everything

[WildCat]

TripleS said:

WildCat said: Am afraid he lost credibiilty to me when he tell me we did not choose good enough driving school for our son - when I point out they all teach to get that L-test pass und practice on the test centre routes for most part... Followed by his reply to my overtake scenario - in which I describe I am almost past the 60 mph driver in L1 .. with BiB on shout closing in at over the ton. He suggested I slow down und move in behind the slower vehicle to allow the overtake instead of taking my speed marginally over to get to a safe gap to allow him to pass unhindered. Und I know I did the right thing because I get thumbs up und salute from the guy in the passenger seat . I happen to consider that any toher action could have led to some kind of accident given the speed of the emergency vehicle und the time required to shave off 10 mph und move in behind the slower vehicle in time und closing distance. Was nonsense he post there .. basically... These cases are inevitably very difficult to judge without being there and seeing what happens. I wouldn't place too much emphasis on this particular one Vrenchen, but I'm inclined to accept that you probably got it right. Thinks: 'I wonder if that will get me back in her good books?' Best wishes all, Dave.

But of course Liebchen...!

Ja... ist difficult if one not there... was correct call - in my opinion - as to shave off to below 60 mph und drop a car und caravan length - plus margin of two second safety when car closing in at 30 mph differential und gain .. he would not had sufficient stopping distance .. I was more or less past the vehicle in question und accelerated to the gap ahead..... car in front of car I overtook was about 10 seconds ahead in this L1.... und I slotted in with a 5 second gap und eased off.

After all in Germany ... to do other than this ... in event of collision.. their law could charge both drivers .... One would be "negligent" und the other "dangerous"

[WildCat]

TripleS said:

* Like the old 3.8 Jaguar - no rack and pinion steering, no power assistance, and something approaching four turns lock to lock! Don't we have things easy these days?

Jawohl Lieber Triple Dave

Ist amazing how you note the difference when you drive a "classic" after the current models...

Und KB... danke... ist nice what you post above... und I hope your other problem ist sorted with best result.



>> Edited by WildCat on Saturday 8th April 09:45

[TripleS]

Mad Moggie said:

vonhosen said: Who coasts ? We C O A S T !

I do quite a lot of COASTing, but I also do a bit of coasting - 'cos I'm quite versatile you see - when the circumstances make it usable without detriment. Presumably I may have to explain and defend this later.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[deeps]

TripleS said:

Mad Moggie said: vonhosen said: Who coasts ? We C O A S T ! I do quite a lot of COASTing, but I also do a bit of coasting - 'cos I'm quite versatile you see - when the circumstances make it usable without detriment. Presumably I may have to explain and defend this later. Best wishes all, Dave.

I also COAST, but never coast in neutral, if that's what we're talking about?

For example, some drivers coast in neutral going down long shallow declines because they think they're saving fuel, when infact the opposite is true - they're using alot more!

[TripleS]

deeps said:

TripleS said: Mad Moggie said: vonhosen said: Who coasts ? We C O A S T ! I do quite a lot of COASTing, but I also do a bit of coasting - 'cos I'm quite versatile you see - when the circumstances make it usable without detriment. Presumably I may have to explain and defend this later. Best wishes all, Dave. I also COAST, but never coast in neutral, if that's what we're talking about? For example, some drivers coast in neutral going down long shallow declines because they think they're saving fuel, when infact the opposite is true - they're using alot more!

That's right. With modern engines I understand the fuel delivery is cut off completely on the over-run (closed throttle) and only restarts when the throttles are opened or the engine speed falls below a certain level - about 1200 rpm on the Jaguar V12 we used to have. If you're coasting with the car in neutral or the clutch pedal depressed the engine is still being supplied with fuel to maintain idling.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[fluffnik]

WildCat said:

Where I trained .. we were tested on A Bahn... und there - you make way for the overtaker und get out of his path .. it mean you always check mirror und always look ahead to the gaps in the traffic.

Now there's one lesson which probably does more to aid road safety than one thousand speed limits.

[TOPTON]

Totally agree with VH on this post. For some to presume on this thread that they know every ADI in Cumbria and Lancs only teach learners to pass the test is utter B******S.

They don't know me or how I teach. I have great pride in my work and the quality of my teaching. I and a lot of my colleuges teach people to drive on many different roads/conditions and then coach them to pass the test.

Pressure from parents etc is very common, "when will my son/daughter be ready for the test because it is costing a fortune. I watched them set off and they are safe"

The simple answer is, they are ready when they are ready. I would not like to meet someone coming the other way if all I had done was teach a "test route"