A poem for those that love speed limits
Discussion
fluffnik said:
Firstly you must be safe, secondly you must remain within the limit.
...and that is better than "Firstly you must be safe." how?
Speed limits are redundant, and a bit noxious.
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
vonhosen said:
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
There you go again vh
. You truely are obsessed with having us all drive at a constant speed, within the limit, down the motorway - CONFORMING. Cazll that Safe? I don't tut tut, you little control freak you
>> Edited by Richard C on Saturday 15th April 10:20
Richard C said:
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
There you go again vh
tut tut, you little control freak you
We won't all be at the same speed, but we won't have big differentials & that's just fine with me (considering the ability level of most drivers)
Oi, this is about poetry and the freedom of the soul, not simple numeric limits 
I drive fast because I enjoy it and telling me it's wrong when I can see for myself that it isn't merely enforces my desire to do it. Deristrict the roads and chances are I'm more likely to slow down... Although I still doubt it 
I drive fast because I enjoy it and telling me it's wrong when I can see for myself that it isn't merely enforces my desire to do it. Deristrict the roads and chances are I'm more likely to slow down... Although I still doubt it BliarOut said:
Oi, this is about poetry and the freedom of the soul, not simple numeric limits
I have no doubt that self gratification is what it is about for you.
vonhosen said:Pot and kettle
Oi, this is about poetry and the freedom of the soul, not simple numeric limits
I have no doubt that self gratification is what it is about for you.
Thrill seeking is not for public roads.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4650
Let's have a little guess at what his opinion of speeding was.
Yes I speed, but I'm not reckless as I don't want to kill myself after all. I'm actually very good & observant, it's just that there is this ridiculous belief that we should have arbitrary limits & people aren't able to drive safely at higher speeds, it's nonsense. It should be up to the driver to always determine what is a safe speed for the circumstances, not a number on a lollipop. It is an imposition on my freedom that is not justified & I'll ignore it.
Sound familiar
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 11:22
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4650
Let's have a little guess at what his opinion of speeding was.
Yes I speed, but I'm not reckless as I don't want to kill myself after all. I'm actually very good & observant, it's just that there is this ridiculous belief that we should have arbitrary limits & people aren't able to drive safely at higher speeds, it's nonsense. It should be up to the driver to always determine what is a safe speed for the circumstances, not a number on a lollipop. It is an imposition on my freedom that is not justified & I'll ignore it.
Sound familiar
from his earlier conviction at 155mph said:
Lee Ingham, defending, said: "It was a moment of spontaneous madness as he overtook vehicles before his turn off.
"Beddis owns a garage and his main hobby is riding motorcycles. He is not usually given to driving dangerously."
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 11:22
vonhosen said:
Firstly you must be safe, secondly you must remain within the limit.
...and that is better than "Firstly you must be safe." how?
Speed limits are redundant, and a bit noxious.
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
This is supported by the studies, however they were looking at one or two laned roads, the sort where vehicles are turning off and joining from side roads (and there is less chance to safely overtake). Doesnt seem to be as relevant to Motorways as there is a bigger differential on motorways than on other roads (Trucks crawling up hills in lane 1, cars doing 80-90 in the outer lanes) yet motorways are the safest roads. Now this contradicts your statement. Common sense tells us that three laned roads are not as subject to the increased differential risk as the studies would indicate. It seems to me that if its easier to overtake then the road is safer. Shame the traffic engineers and speed limits are being set to make safe overtaking more difficult.
s2art said:
Firstly you must be safe, secondly you must remain within the limit.
...and that is better than "Firstly you must be safe." how?
Speed limits are redundant, and a bit noxious.
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
This is supported by the studies, however they were looking at one or two laned roads, the sort where vehicles are turning off and joining from side roads (and there is less chance to safely overtake). Doesnt seem to be as relevant to Motorways as there is a bigger differential on motorways than on other roads (Trucks crawling up hills in lane 1, cars doing 80-90 in the outer lanes) yet motorways are the safest roads. Now this contradicts your statement. Common sense tells us that three laned roads are not as subject to the increased differential risk as the studies would indicate. It seems to me that if its easier to overtake then the road is safer. Shame the traffic engineers and speed limits are being set to make safe overtaking more difficult.
Yes motorways are safer in that regard, but where you don't have limits & the differentials are still allowed to get much larger, OAP beyond the level of that possesed currently by most drivers is required to safely manage that differential. You forget I have direct experience of it on our motorways & teaching people to deal with it safely.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 11:41
vonhosen said:
Firstly you must be safe, secondly you must remain within the limit.
...and that is better than "Firstly you must be safe." how?
Speed limits are redundant, and a bit noxious.
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
This is supported by the studies, however they were looking at one or two laned roads, the sort where vehicles are turning off and joining from side roads (and there is less chance to safely overtake). Doesnt seem to be as relevant to Motorways as there is a bigger differential on motorways than on other roads (Trucks crawling up hills in lane 1, cars doing 80-90 in the outer lanes) yet motorways are the safest roads. Now this contradicts your statement. Common sense tells us that three laned roads are not as subject to the increased differential risk as the studies would indicate. It seems to me that if its easier to overtake then the road is safer. Shame the traffic engineers and speed limits are being set to make safe overtaking more difficult.
Yes motorways are safer in that regard, but where you don't have limits & the differentials are still allowed to get much larger, OAP beyond the level of that possesed currently by most drivers is required to safely manage that differential. You forget I have direct experience of it on our motorways & teaching people to deal with it safely.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 11:41
No, I am not forgetting. I am merely observing that motorways are relatively safe but can have much greater differentials than other roads. I imagine that with better lane discipline they would get even safer. Dont see much emphasis on lane discipline either.
s2art said:
No, I am not forgetting. I am merely observing that motorways are relatively safe but can have much greater differentials than other roads. I imagine that with better lane discipline they would get even safer. Dont see much emphasis on lane discipline either.
Yes by design our motorways are the most safely engineered roads.
I am not suggesting that lane discipline is not poor in a lot of places, but that is also just indicative of driving standards. Higher speed also requires better vision(observation) & accurate assessment.
Again though the fact that collisions don't always happen with poor practice, is not indicative that the practice isn't poor.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 12:09
vonhosen said:
Firstly you must be safe, secondly you must remain within the limit.
...and that is better than "Firstly you must be safe." how?
Speed limits are redundant, and a bit noxious.
Because if we don't have limits differentials increase more markedly & with markedly increased differentials risks increase.
I'm with Ben on this:
Benjamin Franklin said:
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Freedom is being compromised far too much for a marginal reduction in risk.
vonhosen said:
Yes motorways are safer in that regard, but where you don't have limits & the differentials are still allowed to get much larger, OAP beyond the level of that possesed currently by most drivers is required to safely manage that differential. You forget I have direct experience of it on our motorways & teaching people to deal with it safely.
OAP?
You forget that most of us have direct experience of it on Germany's unrestricted Autobahnen where everyone deals with it quite safely.
Perhaps more emphasis on lane dicipline rather than speed would help.
fluffnik said:
Yes motorways are safer in that regard, but where you don't have limits & the differentials are still allowed to get much larger, OAP beyond the level of that possesed currently by most drivers is required to safely manage that differential. You forget I have direct experience of it on our motorways & teaching people to deal with it safely.
OAP?
You forget that most of us have direct experience of it on Germany's unrestricted Autobahnen where everyone deals with it quite safely.
Perhaps more emphasis on lane dicipline rather than speed would help.
Und Gorbach's trialling an ALPINE motorway at over the ton!
Ist one lovely line in internet version from "neue economy" Lieber IG has beaten me to it - link ist over on safespeed.
But basically it say ..
"Drivers who can afford the petrol can put their foots more firmly on the gas pedal. As far as Gorabch ist concerned - they can drive even faster as there are no plans to place speed cameras on this stretch"
However, it should be remembered that Austria has tightened up the test requirements - they have A/bahn drive und candidates are required to demonstrate toppest understanding of lane discipline und mirror use. Und they can be failed on this even if rest of drive ist perfektion.)
vonhosen said:
Thrill seeking is not for public roads...
The speed limit did not really have too much of an effect on this chap though did it Von? Also, this is a very extreme example. There is a big difference between this gentlemen (RIP) and a driver who is using The System to select a safe speed to make good progress.
I would agree that thrill seeking should not be for public roads, and that is why the majority of performance vehicle operators choose to hammer it hard on track days and not the public road.
There will always be the exceptions, but those people will do whatever it takes to break the system including disconnecting any little black boxes that might appear under the bonnet. My fear is that the majority of people have to put up with draconian restrictions, which in the end do not have the desired impact on the delinquent minority the measure was originally aimed at.
fluffnik said:
OAP?
You forget that most of us have direct experience of it on Germany's unrestricted Autobahnen where everyone deals with it quite safely.
Perhaps more emphasis on lane dicipline rather than speed would help.
You mean where there are higher fatality rates than here ?
711 said:
Thrill seeking is not for public roads...
The speed limit did not really have too much of an effect on this chap though did it Von? Also, this is a very extreme example. There is a big difference between this gentlemen (RIP) and a driver who is using The System to select a safe speed to make good progress.
I would agree that thrill seeking should not be for public roads, and that is why the majority of performance vehicle operators choose to hammer it hard on track days and not the public road.
There will always be the exceptions, but those people will do whatever it takes to break the system including disconnecting any little black boxes that might appear under the bonnet. My fear is that the majority of people have to put up with draconian restrictions, which in the end do not have the desired impact on the delinquent minority the measure was originally aimed at.
But without a speed limit it is even more difficult to address the actions of people in relation to the terminal speed they choose. Higher average speeds, higher differentials & higher individual terminal speeds are more likely, not less.
I haven't said that it isn't possible to learn & manage the techniques to deal with that safely. I've said that we shouldn't be allowing de-restriction without such training & at present there is no such training or testing available.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 15th April 14:44
vonhosen said:A meaningless statistic.
OAP?
You forget that most of us have direct experience of it on Germany's unrestricted Autobahnen where everyone deals with it quite safely.
Perhaps more emphasis on lane dicipline rather than speed would help.
You mean where there are higher fatality rates than here ?
These statistics are the ones ones that show the truth:
Fatals/bkm Motorways
UK 2.1
Sweden 2.5
Netherlands 3.2
Switzerland 3.5
Germany 3.7
Denmark 4.1
Japan 4.1
Finland 4.5
France 4.8
US 5.1
Ireland 7.4
Belgium 7.6
Austria 9.2
Italy 9.9
source: 2001 IRTAD International Road Traffic Accident Database OECD August 2003 www.bast.de/facthemen/irtad//engliIf I used your level of spin, I would employ these figures to compare the effects of a 55mph limit in the US with no limit in much of Germany and conclude that low limits are lethal.
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