Unmarked plod... is it really safe to pull over?
Discussion
I can see where you guys are coming from with this one. I did (not allowed anymore!) used to take our 'Q' cars out when wearing plain clothes. Now believe me, i don't look like Plod in plain clothes (in fact it's fair to say that i've been compared to a right scrote off duty!!) Would i get the arse if someone refused to pull over? Probably not. I think it's how someone would react. Accelerating to 100 and wrong-siding would only lead to one thing, but perhaps driving on to a well-lit area like a petrol station could be acceptable to me. Each individual stop would have to be judged differently. I'd certainly call for a marked car at the very least. Fortunately i've always had people stop for me.
And no, i won't tell you what our Q cars are!!
And no, i won't tell you what our Q cars are!!
Dibble said:
I would certainly think twice about stopping for an unmarked car and I've told my wife and daughter NEVER to stop in such circumstances, but either to drive to the nearest police station or to call the police on a mobile and arrange for a marked car to meet them, continuing until this happens.
If the police don't like this approach, then that's tough, but better safe than sorry in this nasty world we live in.
I hope you're prepared for someone to lob a stinger or similar out in front of your car...
Personally I'd rather pay for a new set of tyres for the wife's car than chance having her attacked, although I'm fairly confident that if she saw a 'Marked' car with blues on up ahead she would pull in by it and seek their 'protection'.
eccles said:
to me it sounds like there are some really cautios people out there, its not as if there's a lot of stories in the press about poeple impersonating police officers in unmarked cars. where do you draw the line on things that 'might' happen?
If I was the manager of a repository for a large amount of cash I'd think twice about it
OOOOH
1. what’s the dangerous nasty world we live in
ffs no more now than ever
2. Cheshire are having a crack down in our area
unmarked stick out like a sore thumb, have been followed by two already
they are the only vectras/bmw/saabs/scubbies and the like, that are being driven correctly, they keep a reasonable distance behind you anyway - average vectra/bmw/saab t
t doesn’t, only ones who let you pass with out speeding up its just that they then follow you for the next six miles
3. there has never been any requirement to get out of your car to speak to plod, unsure just stay there
4. neighbour (plod) tells me they are aware of concerns and do everything to put you at easy and let you know they are genuine, but look at from their view they don’t know who you are either
1. what’s the dangerous nasty world we live in
ffs no more now than ever
2. Cheshire are having a crack down in our area
unmarked stick out like a sore thumb, have been followed by two already
they are the only vectras/bmw/saabs/scubbies and the like, that are being driven correctly, they keep a reasonable distance behind you anyway - average vectra/bmw/saab t
t doesn’t, only ones who let you pass with out speeding up its just that they then follow you for the next six miles 3. there has never been any requirement to get out of your car to speak to plod, unsure just stay there
4. neighbour (plod) tells me they are aware of concerns and do everything to put you at easy and let you know they are genuine, but look at from their view they don’t know who you are either
apache said:
to me it sounds like there are some really cautios people out there, its not as if there's a lot of stories in the press about poeple impersonating police officers in unmarked cars. where do you draw the line on things that 'might' happen?
If I was the manager of a repository for a large amount of cash I'd think twice about it
This is exactly the point. I believe that there has been at least one high profile robbery where the influential person was 'stopped' by fake police officers.
I also believe that despite what some others have mentioned, i agree with the original poster. If you drive a high value, movable stealable car, (Merc SL?) the outlay to get some place to fit blue lights behind the grille of a Vectra and a couple of spare uniforms is not much, and a surefire way of getting hold of a car *with* the keys. Also what better way of getting the car far enough away or even out of the country whilst the owner of the car is held for a few hours!?
Similarly, if a rogue had 'different' intentions to a female lone driver, if they are that driven to rape someone getting hold of a uniform is an easy solution.
I think if I were in any doubt whatsoever, I would use my indicators to show that I had seen them, and drive to the nearest populated place, or police station. If you drove calmly and within the speed limit, I think that a real officer following might catch on. He would obviously find that when the number plate was checked it was neither stolen or wanted, and by driving within the speed limit you shouldnt give them any doubt that you are a flight risk.
There has been at least one occasion when I was driving my TVR where I had the feeling I was followed and used a stretch of 60 mph road to accellerate very quickly to 60, and the car still followed. It even followed me all the way home to the end of a windy cul de sac, where I watched while the following car tried to do a hasty three point turn as they were stuck!
Still unaware to this day whether it was an unmarked car or someone marking my car in some other way...
justinp1 said:
Similarly, if a rogue had 'different' intentions to a female lone driver, if they are that driven to rape someone getting hold of a uniform is an easy solution.
I think if I were in any doubt whatsoever, I would use my indicators to show that I had seen them, and drive to the nearest populated place, or police station. If you drove calmly and within the speed limit, I think that a real officer following might catch on. He would obviously find that when the number plate was checked it was neither stolen or wanted, and by driving within the speed limit you shouldnt give them any doubt that you are a flight risk.
Despite the "law" I'd do this too. I dont care if they bring the stingers out, my personal safety comes first. I'd like to think that the copper would understand this if I'd signaled that I'd acknowledged their presence and wasn't trying to get away.
In 99% of cases if you merely continue at a normal speed and have acknowledged the presence of the police car you will probably find a marked one joining it quite quickly as they won't know exactly why you won't stop.
If you are a lone female in an X5 they may have an idea but a 30 something male in an Escort 1.4L may not get quite so understanding treatment .... unless of course they happen to be a director of some large cash rich company or have the keys to the Bank of England on them, etc, etc
If you are a lone female in an X5 they may have an idea but a 30 something male in an Escort 1.4L may not get quite so understanding treatment .... unless of course they happen to be a director of some large cash rich company or have the keys to the Bank of England on them, etc, etc
Heres a legal quandry:
Lets say for example whilst driving alone at night and an unmarked car follows you and blue flashing lights come from the grille.
If you dont pull over until you think its safe or another marked police car arrives, what would be the likely outcome for you? Would the police understand your fears?
The other point is, if after checking you out to find you are innocent of any crime, could the police/CPS push the case for failing to stop?
The reason I say this is at night (or even in the day perhaps) you would not reasonably be able to see that the driver behind was a uniformed officer, thus would you be guilty of any crime?
Lets say for example whilst driving alone at night and an unmarked car follows you and blue flashing lights come from the grille.
If you dont pull over until you think its safe or another marked police car arrives, what would be the likely outcome for you? Would the police understand your fears?
The other point is, if after checking you out to find you are innocent of any crime, could the police/CPS push the case for failing to stop?
The reason I say this is at night (or even in the day perhaps) you would not reasonably be able to see that the driver behind was a uniformed officer, thus would you be guilty of any crime?
Aren't you allowed to drive to the nearest police station and stop there, I know I would, and if you slowed down to a reasonable speed (i.e. 60) to show your not trying to get away I'm sure they'd understand.
Oh, and I keep my wheel brace in my door pocket as the holder is bust (honest!)
Oh, and I keep my wheel brace in my door pocket as the holder is bust (honest!)
I would like to broaden this debate out a little and include marked Police cars.
Three years ago, I entered the slip/joining lane of a motorway. My mobile rang and rather than answer it on the move, I pulled on to the hard shoulder. I must have been all of ten yards onto the slip road were Mway regulations start. Shortly afterwards I was joined by a marked police car. PC asked if I had broken down. Explained that I was on way to airport and assumed that call was important. I had decided that it was safer to pull on to hard shoulder rather than answer when on the move. Got a lecture to the effect that I should have continued my journey, not answered my mobile, left and next exit and then called back. I didn't display any attitude, but got a £30 FPN.
Slightly fuming I join motorway. About 10 miles later I witness unmarked Volvo pull a car and order him to pull over on to hard shoulder. I considered this action whereby an unmarked patrol use the hard shoulder as their office a tad more dangerous than my earlier action.
Eventually after returning from abroad two weeks later I did a little research into the hard shoulder issue and everywhere the view was that the hard shoulder was a dangerous place to be.
Not surprisingly, I accept this consensus. Therefore whenever I drive on the motorway now, I do so with the clear mindset that if a police car (marked or otherwise) indicates for me to to pull over on to the hard shoulder, I will ask myself the question 'is what you are currently doing (including exceeding the speed limit) inherently dangerous?' If as I expect the answer is 'No', then I will ignore the instruction and continue until the next exit and then pull over at the next safe place after leaving the Mway regulated area.
My view is that the hard shoulder is a dangerous place and unless the PC's instructions can be construed as avoiding a greater danger, then his instruction for me to stop in a dangerous place is unlawful and unenforcable.
Discuss.
Three years ago, I entered the slip/joining lane of a motorway. My mobile rang and rather than answer it on the move, I pulled on to the hard shoulder. I must have been all of ten yards onto the slip road were Mway regulations start. Shortly afterwards I was joined by a marked police car. PC asked if I had broken down. Explained that I was on way to airport and assumed that call was important. I had decided that it was safer to pull on to hard shoulder rather than answer when on the move. Got a lecture to the effect that I should have continued my journey, not answered my mobile, left and next exit and then called back. I didn't display any attitude, but got a £30 FPN.
Slightly fuming I join motorway. About 10 miles later I witness unmarked Volvo pull a car and order him to pull over on to hard shoulder. I considered this action whereby an unmarked patrol use the hard shoulder as their office a tad more dangerous than my earlier action.
Eventually after returning from abroad two weeks later I did a little research into the hard shoulder issue and everywhere the view was that the hard shoulder was a dangerous place to be.
Not surprisingly, I accept this consensus. Therefore whenever I drive on the motorway now, I do so with the clear mindset that if a police car (marked or otherwise) indicates for me to to pull over on to the hard shoulder, I will ask myself the question 'is what you are currently doing (including exceeding the speed limit) inherently dangerous?' If as I expect the answer is 'No', then I will ignore the instruction and continue until the next exit and then pull over at the next safe place after leaving the Mway regulated area.
My view is that the hard shoulder is a dangerous place and unless the PC's instructions can be construed as avoiding a greater danger, then his instruction for me to stop in a dangerous place is unlawful and unenforcable.
Discuss.
mungo said:
The requirement to stop is totally lawful and enforceable. You would very highly likely find yourself arrested and charged with failing to stop in the circumstances you describe.
My thoughts exactly. The example kenp gives prompts a totally different response from my earlier post. By all means don't stop, it means i'll get to drive your car to the nick because you'll be making the journey in the back of a smelly transit van. 
mungo said:
The requirement to stop is totally lawful and enforceable. You would very highly likely find yourself arrested and charged with failing to stop in the circumstances you describe.
So with regard to my first comment - one would (and should, is how I read your post) get in serious trouble for exercising common sense.
s a m said:
The requirement to stop is totally lawful and enforceable. You would very highly likely find yourself arrested and charged with failing to stop in the circumstances you describe.
So with regard to my first comment - one would (and should, is how I read your post) get in serious trouble for exercising common sense.
No. Common sense would be to do as you are instructed and stop.
You should stop as far over to the left as is possible but be careful about stopping on the verge which may be soft or any French drain which may be deep! I would suggest that you do not get out of the vehicle but make sure the nearside door is unlocked so it can be opened by the officer who will come to you. If you are asked to get out, make your way around the front of the car and join the officer at the nearside. Do not stand between the two vehicles and always make sure that you are watching the traffic approaching you so you can jump if needs be!
mungo said:
kenp said:
My view is that the hard shoulder is a dangerous place and unless the PC's instructions can be construed as avoiding a greater danger, then his instruction for me to stop in a dangerous place is unlawful and unenforcable.
Discuss.
A police motorway patrol vehicle has warning equipment - blue lights and rear red warning lights - clear to see from a long distance to all traffic driving down the motorway. The car will be positioned behind your car. This makes a stop on the hard shoulder far safer than a car without emergency equipment... people will be aware of your presence on the hard shoulder.
The requirement to stop is totally lawful and enforceable. You would very highly likely find yourself arrested and charged with failing to stop in the circumstances you describe.
I get very nervous if I have to pull over on the motorway. There is no question that it's a dangerous place to be.
I was asked to pull over on the A24 near Dorking last year, under the prevention of terrorism act (or whatever they call it) by a marked police car. I carried on as far as I could in my Renault Master, probably less than a mile, in the hope of finding a layby, but the police officers became quite impatient and demanded I pull over straight away. We ended up half on the grass verge and half on the inside lane of the dual carrigeway, on a left hand bend. Although the police car was parked behind, I thought it was an incredibly stupid place to be.
Because the police do this day in day out, they have become blase about the risks involved.
eccles said:
to me it sounds like there are some really cautios people out there, its not as if there's a lot of stories in the press about poeple impersonating police officers in unmarked cars. where do you draw the line on things that 'might' happen?
Well, there was one round here last week .....
mg6b said:
The requirement to stop is totally lawful and enforceable. You would very highly likely find yourself arrested and charged with failing to stop in the circumstances you describe.
So with regard to my first comment - one would (and should, is how I read your post) get in serious trouble for exercising common sense.
No. Common sense would be to do as you are instructed and stop.
You should stop as far over to the left as is possible but be careful about stopping on the verge which may be soft or any French drain which may be deep! I would suggest that you do not get out of the vehicle but make sure the nearside door is unlocked so it can be opened by the officer who will come to you. If you are asked to get out, make your way around the front of the car and join the officer at the nearside. Do not stand between the two vehicles and always make sure that you are watching the traffic approaching you so you can jump if needs be!
Isn't my point about the plod NOT being a real plod, and in fact using it as a cover to get you to stop in a quiet, remote place then get you out, or themselves into the car?
I would have a problem stopping on the hard shoulder, I have seen Police Stop and similar enough times to see what *can* happen when nutters can't stay in lane. I would pull over for a marked car, all be it a little pissed off, but unmarked would be a difficult call for both the hijack risk, and the road safety angle.
autismuk said:
to me it sounds like there are some really cautios people out there, its not as if there's a lot of stories in the press about poeple impersonating police officers in unmarked cars. where do you draw the line on things that 'might' happen?
Well, there was one round here last week .....
any links?
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