Keep left signs
Discussion
Zod said:Is there not a law against wilfully obstructing the Queen's highway?
Any views on this one chaps. Road is fairly quiet, council erect a central reservation, (thats what I think you call it, island thingy), so you can cross half way, wait, and cross the other half.
Now they put up a bus stop just far enough in front of so when the bus stops, as you pass the island, you are right up the rear of the bus, and pulling out to pass is somewhat difficult.
There's a similar one near my home - bus stop just before an island. If the buses stop AT the pole, there's enough room ahead to pull in safely. But if they drive too far forward, it gets REALLY difficult. And it's a busy road, too!
Trouble here is, you don't realise where the nose of the bus is until you're passing the bus, so you could find yourself alongside the bus with nowhere to go, stranded in the middle of the road blocking the oncoming traffic!
...gotta love the 'integrated transport policy', eh?!?
Trouble here is, you don't realise where the nose of the bus is until you're passing the bus, so you could find yourself alongside the bus with nowhere to go, stranded in the middle of the road blocking the oncoming traffic!
...gotta love the 'integrated transport policy', eh?!?
In answer to MG, you know your right, if the driver wasn't there it wouldn't have happened,why didn't i think of that-doh!
But my point is that these were installed in the wrong locations ie. on a blind bend. I'm not aware of the full details of the accident. I saw the carnage immediately afterwards though before the ambulance arrived, and redirected in the opposite direction by the Police. if you want the accident stats i don't have them, i dont suppose everyone reports them unless their injured in some way to, or the police don't attend the scene!
By the state of the islands kerbs i would say quite a few have hit these throughout our village since they were introduced. Non have the chevron markings either on the kerbs and at night could be more easily kerbed!
Anyone know how many deaths have resulted by drivers crashing into these obstacles throughout Britain ,would be interesting to know?
But my point is that these were installed in the wrong locations ie. on a blind bend. I'm not aware of the full details of the accident. I saw the carnage immediately afterwards though before the ambulance arrived, and redirected in the opposite direction by the Police. if you want the accident stats i don't have them, i dont suppose everyone reports them unless their injured in some way to, or the police don't attend the scene!
By the state of the islands kerbs i would say quite a few have hit these throughout our village since they were introduced. Non have the chevron markings either on the kerbs and at night could be more easily kerbed!
Anyone know how many deaths have resulted by drivers crashing into these obstacles throughout Britain ,would be interesting to know?
gilberninvader said:
In answer to MG, you know your right, if the driver wasn't there it wouldn't have happened,why didn't i think of that-doh!
But my point is that these were installed in the wrong locations ie. on a blind bend. I'm not aware of the full details of the accident. I saw the carnage immediately afterwards though before the ambulance arrived, and redirected in the opposite direction by the Police. if you want the accident stats i don't have them, i dont suppose everyone reports them unless their injured in some way to, or the police don't attend the scene!
By the state of the islands kerbs i would say quite a few have hit these throughout our village since they were introduced. Non have the chevron markings either on the kerbs and at night could be more easily kerbed!
Anyone know how many deaths have resulted by drivers crashing into these obstacles throughout Britain ,would be interesting to know?
It just shows how much most drivers would benefit from learning the Roadcraft style of car positioning approaching bends. There is rarely any excuse for rounding a blind bend on the wrong side of the road other than plain sloppy driving.
JJ
jazzyjeff said:
It just shows how much most drivers would benefit from learning the Roadcraft style of car positioning approaching bends. There is rarely any excuse for rounding a blind bend on the wrong side of the road other than plain sloppy driving.
JJ
If it was a left handed blind bend, a position on the wrong side (if safe to do so) would be a positive advantage in giving observation for a plan to avoid the obstruction!
Another hint would be to approach the bend at a speed which was sensible to allow another course of action to be planned rather than to have to react to a situation due to a lack of time and preparation!
7db said:This is no mere conspiracy theory, it is cold hard fact. Putting it down to incompetence does their hard work no service at all. It is deliberate. I know people who know (beacuse they are responsible for it) and brag about it.
Cor you conspiracy theorists would make even the WhoShotJFK forum blush.
Never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence...
Surely some incompetence can also be attributed to the Highways Dept/Planners, who considered placing this refuge on a bend in the first place ........... I wonder if the police were consulted in the positioning of said refuge and maybe people like VH could have advised that it may increase the likelyhood of some incompetent non police drivers, coming into contact with it in certain instances!
Just to confirm the driver appears to have clipped the kerb with the front right wheel which puts the driver only inches from the correct line and not completely over the other side of the road as you misunderstood. The island is also just opposite another junction and also a bus stop. The roadway is very narrow anyway and to have installed the island there is madness!
gilberninvader said:
Just to confirm the driver appears to have clipped the kerb with the front right wheel which puts the driver only inches from the correct line and not completely over the other side of the road as you misunderstood. The island is also just opposite another junction and also a bus stop. The roadway is very narrow anyway and to have installed the island there is madness!
If you're clipping the kerb you're more than just "inches" from the correct line. You're about two feet away at least.
CommanderJameson said:
Just to confirm the driver appears to have clipped the kerb with the front right wheel which puts the driver only inches from the correct line and not completely over the other side of the road as you misunderstood. The island is also just opposite another junction and also a bus stop. The roadway is very narrow anyway and to have installed the island there is madness!
If you're clipping the kerb you're more than just "inches" from the correct line. You're about two feet away at least.
These islands are 1.2 metres (4 feet) across as standard. Some are bigger. You can't normally fit a keep left bollard on smaller ones.
gilberninvader said:
will measure the road at this junction, and report how wide it is then..but 2 feet off driving line is a joke commander!
Given that we've not got any visual data, I'll happily concede that 2 feet may be a generous assessment in this particular case.
It doesn't alter the fact that a driver in proper control of their vehicle doesn't hit the kerb.
>> Edited by CommanderJameson on Saturday 22 April 10:05
I've taken several photos but am unable to download yet as i can't find my phone cable, will do asap.
I've measured road width now (between tiling the bathroom floor!!!!)
The width between kerb and the island kerb, is approx, 3.1 meters.
If you take off the drain covers width say 300mm, it leaves an effective width of 2.8 meters. Car wheel bases are on average about 2m it therefore leaves 400 mm clearance on either side of the car for travelling along centre of carriageway.
400mm is 1' 4'' therefore, i concede thats nearer 2foot than i said a few inches but with the added effect of the reverse camber and centrifugal forces pushing the cars into the refuge,on this left hander, a few inexperienced drivers will inevitably get caught out.
I wonder if the driver was cautioned for DD that is if he survived....
Sorry original poster for hijacking the site a bit but i think some of these 'refuge'islands are badly positioned thats all.
In the right places with well lit bollards and chevroned kerbs they are fine.
I've measured road width now (between tiling the bathroom floor!!!!)
The width between kerb and the island kerb, is approx, 3.1 meters.
If you take off the drain covers width say 300mm, it leaves an effective width of 2.8 meters. Car wheel bases are on average about 2m it therefore leaves 400 mm clearance on either side of the car for travelling along centre of carriageway.
400mm is 1' 4'' therefore, i concede thats nearer 2foot than i said a few inches but with the added effect of the reverse camber and centrifugal forces pushing the cars into the refuge,on this left hander, a few inexperienced drivers will inevitably get caught out.
I wonder if the driver was cautioned for DD that is if he survived....
Sorry original poster for hijacking the site a bit but i think some of these 'refuge'islands are badly positioned thats all.
In the right places with well lit bollards and chevroned kerbs they are fine.
sean5302 said:Some post somewhere said it was also an offence to overtake a moving yellow school bus in the US of A. Maybe it was right...
I seem to remember reading that, in America, you are not allowed to overtake a parked school bus. I think the bus has yellow flashing lights, or somesuch.
The idea is that people will be alighting from the bus and may walk out into the road.
From the number of central reservations at bus-stops, such as described here, I wonder if that's part of the thinking.
What America does today, we always seem to end up doing, tomorrow (badly).
turbobloke said:
I seem to remember reading that, in America, you are not allowed to overtake a parked school bus. I think the bus has yellow flashing lights, or somesuch.
The idea is that people will be alighting from the bus and may walk out into the road.
From the number of central reservations at bus-stops, such as described here, I wonder if that's part of the thinking.
What America does today, we always seem to end up doing, tomorrow (badly).
You may be right, but anyone alighting from a bus and walking out IN FRONT of it is a suicide candidate. With reference to the children doing it, the answer seems blatenly simple EDUCATE THE BUGGERS, or put a conductor back on the school buses to make sure they dont head for the front of the bus to cross.
turbobloke said:You can't pass a School Bus when its traficator-like arm is sticking out (oh, er, Missus!). There can also be speed restrictions in school zones at school drop-off and pick-up times (but not in all states/towns) - Streaky
I seem to remember reading that, in America, you are not allowed to overtake a parked school bus. I think the bus has yellow flashing lights, or somesuch.
The idea is that people will be alighting from the bus and may walk out into the road.
From the number of central reservations at bus-stops, such as described here, I wonder if that's part of the thinking.
What America does today, we always seem to end up doing, tomorrow (badly).
Visited my parents last night and spotted another of these genius layouts.
in Linithgow just outside Edinburgh on the Bo'ness road for those that know the place.
This is the primary route for any fire engine's going into the town and there is now a crossing island at the bottom of the hill as the road switches from a long left bend to a short right uphill bend The bus stop markings far right corner practically touches the island. This bus stop used to be recessed off the road.
Biggest problems i see with this are:
A) the unfortunate timing of a fire crew responding to an emergency at the same time as a bus being at the stop with a q behind it.
B) the majority of (local) users of this section of road drive way too fast around this corner (it is a 30) and someone is very likely to pile into a q of traffic behind a stopped bus.
They have also laid down double broken lines with hatchting nearer to the entrance to my parents street with a nice box section for turning in to the street. I tried to follow the markings the first time only to realise it was almost impossible to do and my car is tiny. Do they never test these things before they lay the final markings?
in Linithgow just outside Edinburgh on the Bo'ness road for those that know the place.
This is the primary route for any fire engine's going into the town and there is now a crossing island at the bottom of the hill as the road switches from a long left bend to a short right uphill bend The bus stop markings far right corner practically touches the island. This bus stop used to be recessed off the road.
Biggest problems i see with this are:
A) the unfortunate timing of a fire crew responding to an emergency at the same time as a bus being at the stop with a q behind it.
B) the majority of (local) users of this section of road drive way too fast around this corner (it is a 30) and someone is very likely to pile into a q of traffic behind a stopped bus.
They have also laid down double broken lines with hatchting nearer to the entrance to my parents street with a nice box section for turning in to the street. I tried to follow the markings the first time only to realise it was almost impossible to do and my car is tiny. Do they never test these things before they lay the final markings?
KB_S1 said:No! Political correctness confers infinite wisdom, and removes the need for anything relating to 'objectivity' or 'common sense' to be considered - cmon keep up with the times, the world has moved on.
Do they never test these things before they lay the final markings?
F
g crazy world nowadays, is it not...vipers said:
.......... or put a conductor back on the school buses to make sure they dont head for the front of the bus to cross.
Don't know if anyone has followed the current trial in South Wales re a School Bus crash where a child died?
HTV Wales/BBC Wales news last night quoted "None of the children were wearing seatbelts. The Adult chaperone on the bus stated - It was NOT part of my duties to make sure they wore seatbelts" FFS - why was she there then?
BB
quote=KB_S1] Do they never test these things before they lay the final markings?[/quote]]
Definitely not judging by the number of mini-roundabouts in Gloucestershire where the gap between the island and the kerb is less than the width of a car. The bus drivers just ignore the islands and drive straight over with the wheels each side of the small central hump.
Definitely not judging by the number of mini-roundabouts in Gloucestershire where the gap between the island and the kerb is less than the width of a car. The bus drivers just ignore the islands and drive straight over with the wheels each side of the small central hump.
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