Employee speeding advice please
Discussion
A guy who works for me is on 9 points currently.
He recently completed a NOIP naming his wife as the driver - and she clearly wasn't.
He then received a letter back saying that they had looked at the photo and would he like to re-submit the note naming the driver, as it was clearly a man driving.
Assuming he signs it, they have offered a FPN (?) of 3 points and a fine.
But, when he submits his licence, presumably they will require his presence in Court, as this will take him to 12 points.
If he then goes to Court, might it be taken into account that the guy tried to name his wife as the driver in earlier correspondence? If so presumably he will be in deep do-do and possibly his wife too.
He was banned once some years ago and his job is quite literally on the line over this.
He recently completed a NOIP naming his wife as the driver - and she clearly wasn't.
He then received a letter back saying that they had looked at the photo and would he like to re-submit the note naming the driver, as it was clearly a man driving.
Assuming he signs it, they have offered a FPN (?) of 3 points and a fine.
But, when he submits his licence, presumably they will require his presence in Court, as this will take him to 12 points.
If he then goes to Court, might it be taken into account that the guy tried to name his wife as the driver in earlier correspondence? If so presumably he will be in deep do-do and possibly his wife too.
He was banned once some years ago and his job is quite literally on the line over this.
Anyone can make a mistake, perhaps he genuinely thought that his wife was driving at the time?
He probably will have to attend due to totting up and if his job is on the line you need to tell the court that.
Chances are if he and other people will suffer due to loss of licence and the court are feeling generous he will escape the ban.
He probably will have to attend due to totting up and if his job is on the line you need to tell the court that.
Chances are if he and other people will suffer due to loss of licence and the court are feeling generous he will escape the ban.
No actually - I'm pretty pi**ed off with him at the moment.
His job really is on the line and partly because I think he was a fool risking it, knowing that he has 9 points, the first 3 of which come off in the Spring.
Whilst I don't support the Government's stance of depriving drivers of their licences, I do think the guy has been foolish in the extreme.
Oh and we're talking about almost 90 in a 70, so not just slightly speeding....
>> Edited by Davel on Friday 28th April 16:23
His job really is on the line and partly because I think he was a fool risking it, knowing that he has 9 points, the first 3 of which come off in the Spring.
Whilst I don't support the Government's stance of depriving drivers of their licences, I do think the guy has been foolish in the extreme.
Oh and we're talking about almost 90 in a 70, so not just slightly speeding....
>> Edited by Davel on Friday 28th April 16:23
Davel said:
Not so in this case - she agreed to take the rap cos his job's on the line.
There was no one else in the car and he was returning from a business trip...
You know that but the court dont.
I dont think him saying his wife was driving and then changing his mind will be viewed as attempt to pervert...
Hmmm, bit holier than thou today.
Question you have to ask yourself is, do you believe the current system of enforcing speed limits is fair.
If you do then this chap deserves all he gets, especially as the nine points have given him quite a bit of thinking time.
If you don't then asking your wife to take the points becomes a lot less clear cut. I talked to a wife who openly admitted she did this some time back. The reason was she didn't believe in the way the law was enforced. Her hubby had to drive for a living in london where it is very easy to accrue those points.
She also said that her and her husband were a financial unit and that the insurance ranking meant that her taking the points meant the whole family would be better off come insurance time if she took the blame. Also if hubby lost his job it would be unfair on her as a dependant.
Now I could accuse her of having no moral courage and that she should have 'outed' her husband for the sake of the greater good of society and obeying the law.
But I don't look good on a white horse, especially when I don't believe in my cause.
Question you have to ask yourself is, do you believe the current system of enforcing speed limits is fair.
If you do then this chap deserves all he gets, especially as the nine points have given him quite a bit of thinking time.
If you don't then asking your wife to take the points becomes a lot less clear cut. I talked to a wife who openly admitted she did this some time back. The reason was she didn't believe in the way the law was enforced. Her hubby had to drive for a living in london where it is very easy to accrue those points.
She also said that her and her husband were a financial unit and that the insurance ranking meant that her taking the points meant the whole family would be better off come insurance time if she took the blame. Also if hubby lost his job it would be unfair on her as a dependant.
Now I could accuse her of having no moral courage and that she should have 'outed' her husband for the sake of the greater good of society and obeying the law.
But I don't look good on a white horse, especially when I don't believe in my cause.
sean5302 said:
The OP said
"He was banned once some years ago and his job is quite literally on the line over this."
When he was banned, did he learn nothing?
Now, he has another ban looming.
Some people see speeding as a victimless crime. The reality is, it's you, me, the other road users who are all potential victims. We could be innocently trying to cross the road, innocently travelling in our cars to be dangerously overtaken by one such as this.
To gain points these days is very common. To be banned (once) is rare. To be banned twice, potentially, I'd be asking myself what job I could do properly.
If this guy packed parachutes for a living, instead of driving, how many failures do you think you'd allow him before you said "enough's enough, get a job you can do, next time"
I see your point, I suppose it depends on what he's banned for.
If it was totting up before then again I think it depends on your view of the speeding law. I guess its possible this guy has never had an accident and never endangered anyone with his driving because he concentrates on the dangers more than he concentrates on speed cameras.
So if I'm trying to give this guy the best benefit of the doubt
In reality he could be a complete loon who got banned for drink driving. In that case I wouldn't ever give him his driving licence back.
sean5302 said:
Some people see speeding as a victimless crime. The reality is, it's you, me, the other road users who are all potential victims. We could be innocently trying to cross the road, innocently travelling in our cars to be dangerously overtaken by one such as this.
Speeding is a victimless crime. Your innocent victims would be hurt because of dangerous driving not because of a number on a dial. I could just as easily point to people who are in danger of being mowed down by mobile chicanes driving well below the speed limit who are busily checking their makeup or tuning the radio instead of paying attention, by your argument these would be victims of driving too slowly. The truth is that dangerous driving kills, and driving in excess of the speed limit is not inherently dangerous.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 28th April 17:46
Davel said:
Oh and we're talking about almost 90 in a 70, so not just slightly speeding....
What? Whilst 90 on the motorway is technically speeding he and everyone else will have been doing it. Getting caught doing 90 is just unlucky.
Getting caught four times in three years is something else again, of course.
Your comments are all interesting and appreciated.
For at least 12 months, his speedo has not been working (his own car) He always drives too fast and too close but, when caught this time, he was actually in car hired by my company, which is how I first recived the NOIP. Despite me chasing him several times, there has never been the time to get the speedo fixed apparently.
I named him despite the request, from him, that I named his wife - which I certainly wasn't prepared to do.
He has suddenly warmed to the idea of getting a helper to work with him, but I think that he really expects me to provide a driver not a helper.
He has a responsible job controlling several jobs and sub-contractors and I'm frankly amazed at his lack of responsibility in all this.
Most of us have some points but, in his instance, he's put his livelyhood at risk and taken little care to avoid his impending fate.
As said further up the thread, if he kills someone even in his own car, I'd have to face the reality that I allowed him to drive despite knowing how he actually drives.
For at least 12 months, his speedo has not been working (his own car) He always drives too fast and too close but, when caught this time, he was actually in car hired by my company, which is how I first recived the NOIP. Despite me chasing him several times, there has never been the time to get the speedo fixed apparently.
I named him despite the request, from him, that I named his wife - which I certainly wasn't prepared to do.
He has suddenly warmed to the idea of getting a helper to work with him, but I think that he really expects me to provide a driver not a helper.
He has a responsible job controlling several jobs and sub-contractors and I'm frankly amazed at his lack of responsibility in all this.
Most of us have some points but, in his instance, he's put his livelyhood at risk and taken little care to avoid his impending fate.
As said further up the thread, if he kills someone even in his own car, I'd have to face the reality that I allowed him to drive despite knowing how he actually drives.
sean5302 said:I know what you mean sean5302 but I have to add that it's hardly a surprise is it? Cameras don't teach people anything, least of all how to pay attention and maintain observation at the wheel. That's one of the reasons why they're so bl00dy useless, and fail to improve road safety.
When he was banned, did he learn nothing?
Now, he has another ban looming.
sean5302 said:
He could appeal at an Industrial Tribunal that his employer knew precisely what his driving was like, yet condoned it by letting him continue. Right I'll shut up.
I think that's a very fair comment and equally very worrying too!
I'll take advice on this point early next week.
Thanks all
>> Edited by Davel on Friday 28th April 22:03
Davel said:
He could appeal at an Industrial Tribunal that his employer knew precisely what his driving was like, yet condoned it by letting him continue. Right I'll shut up.
I think that's a very fair comment and equally very worrying too!
I'll take adice on this point early next week.
Thanks all
I was just about to post the same thing - you have a *serious* 'duty of care' issue here. It doesn't even matter if he was driving his own car, if he's on company business then you're responsible for making sure his car is legal, properly insured etc etc. In view of his previous ban, and his 9 points, he ought to have been sent on a driver training course.
deva link said:
I was just about to post the same thing - you have a *serious* 'duty of care' issue here. It doesn't even matter if he was driving his own car, if he's on company business then you're responsible for making sure his car is legal, properly insured etc etc. In view of his previous ban, and his 9 points, he ought to have been sent on a driver training course.
I agree with this. What happens to him in court is his problem not yours. However, what is your problem is that you have let him drive for business when you have been seriously concerned about his driving standards and safety as well as the roadworthiness of his own car (used for business). That conveys a huge potential H&S liability on his employer, dunno if that's you or not. Whatever happens regarding his speeding, you have to enact the proper HR and H&S policy regarding him and his car.
Hope it works out ok for you.
Graham
Speeding is a victimless crime in the vast majority of cases. After all most people speed without incident or accident. However isn't it a proven fact that if you are involved im a no fault accident you are lore likely to be involved inaother no fault accident? In whci case could the same be said for speeding?
Dare I suggest that in this case you presumably don;t know tooo muchg about the home circumstances of your member of staff. don;t know if money is short etc, and therefore maybe he can;t afford to have the car fixed? Equally if concerned about his driving should you be paying for him to go on a drivers course? Indeed could he argue that the amount of work you give him means he has to speed to get from appointment to appointment?
Really it all depends on the method he has been caught by. I know several people who have been caught by mobile cameras in Kent recently without even knowing the camera is there. Mainly because from certain directions you cannot see the camera markings on them. Yes a driver on 9 points should stick religously to the limit, but its easier said than done, and after all 90 in a 70 is hardly a serious offence and slightly less than my crusing speed used to be. Mind you slower car now!
Dare I suggest that in this case you presumably don;t know tooo muchg about the home circumstances of your member of staff. don;t know if money is short etc, and therefore maybe he can;t afford to have the car fixed? Equally if concerned about his driving should you be paying for him to go on a drivers course? Indeed could he argue that the amount of work you give him means he has to speed to get from appointment to appointment?
Really it all depends on the method he has been caught by. I know several people who have been caught by mobile cameras in Kent recently without even knowing the camera is there. Mainly because from certain directions you cannot see the camera markings on them. Yes a driver on 9 points should stick religously to the limit, but its easier said than done, and after all 90 in a 70 is hardly a serious offence and slightly less than my crusing speed used to be. Mind you slower car now!
Whilst I do know the answers to your questions, I think that I'd prefer not to say more right now in case he also reads this forum.
I am all too aware of his domestic finances and there i no reason at all why the speedo could not have bee fixed ages ago.
The annoying thing threre is that the speedo was working on the hire car that he used and I have warned him to slow down several times but not in writing.
My point of posting the thread was really to ask what the likely outcome in court will be against the guy.
I am all too aware of his domestic finances and there i no reason at all why the speedo could not have bee fixed ages ago.
The annoying thing threre is that the speedo was working on the hire car that he used and I have warned him to slow down several times but not in writing.
My point of posting the thread was really to ask what the likely outcome in court will be against the guy.
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