Discussion
Right, I'm not talking about people trying to break the sound barrier weaving in and out here, I'm talking about driving in lane 1 at the posted limit (safely), with traffic in 2 + 3.
Is undertaking an offence in itself?
Obviously if the speed differential is great then it is dangerous, but to cruise past...is that something that is going to make police do anything more than observe my driving for a bit?
Is undertaking an offence in itself?
Obviously if the speed differential is great then it is dangerous, but to cruise past...is that something that is going to make police do anything more than observe my driving for a bit?
vonhosen said:
It isn't a specific offence, but can be part of a DWDCA/Inconsiderate driving.
If you look in the highway code there is advice with regards to what is & what isn't considered acceptable.
If you look in the highway code there is advice with regards to what is & what isn't considered acceptable.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 21st June 06:43
I have often wondered ..why hogging Middle Lane ist not prosecuted as inconsiderate driving when Highway Code do give decent advice in rule 238 as in remain in outer lane until you have overtaken all the cars you plan to overtake .. und use the left lane or "return to the left lane if you are delaying traffic behind you"
Und rule 238 say "verboten"
to undertake on Hard Shoulder .. 
unless emergency or instructed to do so. Und rule 242 telll you when you can undertake legally ... swhen congestion mean L1 travel faster than L2 und L3 und you must keep up with traffic to keep it flowing.. .. und to keep traffic moving.. ist nothing wrong with a zip merge!
- but it does not say that in Highway Code.. und it should do. Edited by WildCat on Wednesday 21st June 07:27
tigger1 said:
Cheers Von - so is it the case that if I move left to pass a car I'm probably committing at least one offence, unless that car is going v slowly and I do too?
If that car ist going too slowly for road condition in the outer lane - then the hogger ist also guilty of inconsiderate driving because it not driving to road conditions. Und it could also be dangerous if he suddenly realise he should not be in outer lane und this type usually not look in nearside mirror or any mirror
...
und they usually then cut in front of you und could prang you if you are undertaking them at time. Ist a tricky one und why we need policemen on road to spot this as person und deal with it
This is an extremely grey area and advanced drivers which I know disagree on whether passing MLMs etc on the left is acceptable. I see no reason for a prosecution to occur unless their is otherwise really obvious careless/inconsiderate driving going on to add to it (weaving, tailgating, collision etc).
If you do it, probably best not to linger inside the target vehicle (make a crisp pass, not a long drawn out stalking in his blind spot), and hold it as your responsibility to avoid collision if he drops in a lane without signalling. Also worth noting that not a lot of point pressing past if there's nowhere to go on the far side -- if it's going to be a journey-long differential of a minute, why not tuck in and wait for the elephant racing ahead to stop ... or whatever is causing the temporary congestion.
If you do it, probably best not to linger inside the target vehicle (make a crisp pass, not a long drawn out stalking in his blind spot), and hold it as your responsibility to avoid collision if he drops in a lane without signalling. Also worth noting that not a lot of point pressing past if there's nowhere to go on the far side -- if it's going to be a journey-long differential of a minute, why not tuck in and wait for the elephant racing ahead to stop ... or whatever is causing the temporary congestion.
WildCat said:
I have often wondered ..why hogging Middle Lane ist not prosecuted as inconsiderate driving when Highway Code do give decent advice in rule 238 as in remain in outer lane until you have overtaken all the cars you plan to overtake ...
Ah, but Wildy, mein liebstes Herz, BMW drivers plan to overtake all the cars ahead of them! 0&X's - StreakyI tend to drive behind the MLM and flash my lights a lot... 50% of the time they move over... Then I drive on at the NSL.... Those who don't move, well, I sit and fume.. Always tempted to get my passenger to take a mobile phone pic of the 3 clear miles of inside lane and the MLM... Would plod do anything?
jasandjules said:
I tend to drive behind the MLM and flash my lights a lot... 50% of the time they move over... Then I drive on at the NSL.... Those who don't move, well, I sit and fume.. Always tempted to get my passenger to take a mobile phone pic of the 3 clear miles of inside lane and the MLM... Would plod do anything?
Hate doing it, but had to yesterday.....after a mile or so of sitting behind Stevie Wonder on a dual carriageway,finally had enough,as did the guy in front and behind.Surely its the idiot causing the trouble who should be getting a word in his ear?
jasandjules said:
I tend to drive behind the MLM and flash my lights a lot... 50% of the time they move over... Then I drive on at the NSL.... Those who don't move, well, I sit and fume.. Always tempted to get my passenger to take a mobile phone pic of the 3 clear miles of inside lane and the MLM... Would plod do anything?
There's a fine line between a single long flash to alert the driver to your presence and repeated and aggressive flashing to force someone out of the way which passes the test for inconsiderate driving. Beware. I find a long flash whilst still some way off and closing occasionally wakes them up.
Otherwise - dropping into the nearsideand back out again creates some movement in the driver's mirror which he is more likely to notice than a an apparently stationary vehicle. Headlights are your friend.
Obviously if there is another lane to pass him in, then out you go and leave him in his own little world.
WildCat said:
.. ist nothing wrong with a zip merge! - but it does not say that in Highway Code.. und it should do.
- but it does not say that in Highway Code.. und it should do. It's mentioned in the next version - #128
www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/consult/Highway_Code/Rules_98-219.pdf
On the subject of driving safely. I was at an IAM meeting and they had a speaker from a local(ish) force - who was PCxxx a Casualty Reduction Officer. He was talking about driving attitude and similar things and I got to heckle a bit on principle when he drifted onto cameras and speedlimits (which isn't the major point)
For a 3 lane road:
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
He definately advocated that if overtaken on the left - speed up till alongside the lorry up ahead and then slow down to piss off the "BMW" who overtook on the left.
I didn't (but should have done) say I would want him prosecuted for dangerous driving - or at least due care and attention.
Sean
For a 3 lane road:
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
He definately advocated that if overtaken on the left - speed up till alongside the lorry up ahead and then slow down to piss off the "BMW" who overtook on the left.
I didn't (but should have done) say I would want him prosecuted for dangerous driving - or at least due care and attention.
Sean
NugentS said:
For a 3 lane road:
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
The notion I find useful is the 12s rule -- that if you would have to be back out again in 12s then stay out. Otherwise drop in. It's only a rule of thumb, however, and you need to have a look at traffic levels and specifically who is approaching from behind who will block you in.
7db said:
NugentS said:
For a 3 lane road:
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
The notion I find useful is the 12s rule -- that if you would have to be back out again in 12s then stay out. Otherwise drop in. It's only a rule of thumb, however, and you need to have a look at traffic levels and specifically who is approaching from behind who will block you in.
Agree...saw it about the same time as the outside lane idiot yesterday.People,(and although I don't normally cricize them),it was almost excusively women yesterday,see a lorry miles ahead and pull out long before they need to,thus causing all the traffic to bunch up in the outside lane,while the inside is clear all the way to the "slower" moving vehicle...it drives me nuts.Couple of people then undertook(?) and were well ahead before having to pull out again for the lorry.Its just plain bad driving I'm afraid
7db said:
NugentS said:
For a 3 lane road:
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
He appeared to advocate driving in the middle lane (unless there was miles and I mean miles of space on the left)
The notion I find useful is the 12s rule -- that if you would have to be back out again in 12s then stay out. Otherwise drop in. It's only a rule of thumb, however, and you need to have a look at traffic levels and specifically who is approaching from behind who will block you in.
It's something I find tricky. In light traffic it's a no-brainer and you only need to pull out to pass traffic just like any overtaking manoeuver. In moderate traffic it takes more care to balance closing speed with obstructions in front and traffic closing from behind to pick a suitable gap to pull out into without anybody having to change speed significantly. But as the traffic gets heavier, it gets harder to find an opportunity to move back out out to pass the next obstruction, and in heavy traffic moving left is tantamount to boxing yourself in for several minutes. Under those circumstances, I'm more inclined to stay 'out'.
By the way twelve seconds between lane changes strikes me as quite short. That's roughly how long it takes me to change lane (four seconds advance indication, six seconds to move across (cancel the indicator after about four seconds to make it clear I'm not intending a double lane change), leaving me two seconds away from the traffic I'm about to pass). Sometimes I'll do it quicker and pull into a shorter gap if I'm moving over specifically to let faster traffic past with the intention of pulling straight out behind them, but that requires considerably more care.
Saw some one do a crazy undertake fri morning, M6 north. About carlisle there is a shortish strech of roadworks, motorway goes from 3 to 2 to 1 on the rh lane. Approaching it it was well signed and you could see the trucks pulling over (1/4 mile or so as they went into tne first lane closurese) clicked the cruise off and slowed along with the other cars behind and moved over. At the point that it went into 2 lanes along comes the 06 plated Range Rover that undertook the slowing/queuing traffic in rh lane with at least a 40 mph differential, just (and I mean just, I was hard on the brakes now as I thought he was going to plough into cones) managing to get over into rh lane before the lane 2 closure. He them narrowly avoided the 30 or so tons of steel directly in front of him by some EXTREME braking.
Unfortuantly all the T5's were around the A66/M6 junction area at that time pity they would have had that driver off the roads.
Unfortuantly all the T5's were around the A66/M6 junction area at that time
pity they would have had that driver off the roads.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff