Drunk in charge of a vehicle
Discussion
now with all the drunk drive threads romping around my thoughts turn to another matter
"Drunk in charge of a vehicle" Now as far as i know you do not have to even be in the car to be charged with this as detailed by a case where a business man weaved out of a pub to his car to retrieve his mobile from the boot. other cases such as someone sleeping it off in the back seat and getting charged drunk in charge.
Now as i occasionally drive into town and get a taxi back if i have more then 1 then return by bike the following day to retrive said car. Would i be advised to lock the car keys in the car as it might not take a huge leap of logic for plod to say i have car keys there fore i am drunk in charge even if i am toddling through the car park to remove stereo from car.
basically i am asking what do they define as "drunk in charge" as a real wanker could point out that if i have my car on the drive and i am in the house then i am drunk in charge, ridiculous yes but policing is heading in this direction.
"Drunk in charge of a vehicle" Now as far as i know you do not have to even be in the car to be charged with this as detailed by a case where a business man weaved out of a pub to his car to retrieve his mobile from the boot. other cases such as someone sleeping it off in the back seat and getting charged drunk in charge.
Now as i occasionally drive into town and get a taxi back if i have more then 1 then return by bike the following day to retrive said car. Would i be advised to lock the car keys in the car as it might not take a huge leap of logic for plod to say i have car keys there fore i am drunk in charge even if i am toddling through the car park to remove stereo from car.
basically i am asking what do they define as "drunk in charge" as a real wanker could point out that if i have my car on the drive and i am in the house then i am drunk in charge, ridiculous yes but policing is heading in this direction.
I would say that the DIC offence is down to intent which i generally proved by way of interview.
You would need to either be intending to drive or have driven with excess alcohol. Again this can be proved by way of interview or witness evidence or cctv etc, as well as other factors which can help prove the intent to drive.
You would need to either be intending to drive or have driven with excess alcohol. Again this can be proved by way of interview or witness evidence or cctv etc, as well as other factors which can help prove the intent to drive.
If you were to be walking to your car in the carpark and were seen then i doubt you would have any problems. I personally would hold off approaching you untill it reached the point you were going to drive ie ignition on and headlamps come on.
If you just got in the car, took off the face plate and walked off then i wouldnt bother with you, id have a word but thats as far as it goes just to show we are watching.
Personally id much rather have you driving than in charge.
Just use common sense.
If you just got in the car, took off the face plate and walked off then i wouldnt bother with you, id have a word but thats as far as it goes just to show we are watching.
Personally id much rather have you driving than in charge.
Just use common sense.
^Slider^ said:
I personally would hold off approaching you untill it reached the point you were going to drive ie ignition on and headlamps come on.
If you just got in the car, took off the face plate and walked off then i wouldnt bother with you, id have a word but thats as far as it goes just to show we are watching.
Personally id much rather have you driving than in charge.
Just use common sense.
If you just got in the car, took off the face plate and walked off then i wouldnt bother with you, id have a word but thats as far as it goes just to show we are watching.
Personally id much rather have you driving than in charge.
Just use common sense.
Two problems with your reply when you say "I" I assume you are a level headed officer who is not out to be a complete git
What is my defense against a little jumped up twit who is completely lacking in common sense as common sense is no longer very common.
As sadly my experience with the plod round here is more jobsworth then anything else.
Basically what i am asking is what is the exact definition of being "drunk in charge" if i have my car keys in my pocket and i am blotto where could PC jobsworth charge me, i am not talking about a sensible officer one of the idiots that occasionally pop up in any job.
Edited by thinfourth on Thursday 3rd August 14:30
The defence is that there was no intent to drive.
There are curcumstances where i would arrest, where it was obvious to me that they had driven or were about to drive.
Sadly there are *inexperienced* officers that will look at the letter of the law and say that you were guilty because you were in charge of the vehicle.
The only thing i could suggest in relation to your OP is the truth.
I only returned to my car becasue i needed to take the face off the sterio, the reasons i didnt take it off at the start of the night is because, i was going to a busy pub / club and i didnt want to loose it / have it stolen.
In the past i have asked that the driver gives me there keys to the car and they can collect them in the morning as an act of goodwill so sometimes offering up the keys may be an option.
Alot of people who were about to drive are so obvious in there answers to us and the fact they were thinking up excuses as they go along. If you already knew that you wernt going to drive and had a valid reason for returning to your car it will be obvious to police (hopefully).
Sometimes it comes down to the attitude / body language of the suspect.
There are quite a few factors to be honest and i cant speak for all officers but thats just my personal experiance
There are curcumstances where i would arrest, where it was obvious to me that they had driven or were about to drive.
Sadly there are *inexperienced* officers that will look at the letter of the law and say that you were guilty because you were in charge of the vehicle.
The only thing i could suggest in relation to your OP is the truth.
I only returned to my car becasue i needed to take the face off the sterio, the reasons i didnt take it off at the start of the night is because, i was going to a busy pub / club and i didnt want to loose it / have it stolen.
In the past i have asked that the driver gives me there keys to the car and they can collect them in the morning as an act of goodwill so sometimes offering up the keys may be an option.
Alot of people who were about to drive are so obvious in there answers to us and the fact they were thinking up excuses as they go along. If you already knew that you wernt going to drive and had a valid reason for returning to your car it will be obvious to police (hopefully).
Sometimes it comes down to the attitude / body language of the suspect.
There are quite a few factors to be honest and i cant speak for all officers but thats just my personal experiance
I know of a guy who lived in a pub on a corner between 2 busy streets (he was actually shacked up with the landlords daughter as opposed to being a licensee) anyway one afternoon he had been rained off at work and so was home by lunchtime and had a few beers, late afternoon a dray delivery comes in and his car is infront of the cellar entrance and the landlord asks him to shift it to other side of carpark (the important bit here is that the pub was actually closed and he was upstairs) He got in the car reversed out of the space and a woman on the school run cut through the carpark to avoid the junction and hit him, there was no doubt at all that she was 100% to blame for the accident, however he went to court and got a 2 year ban for effectively being in his car on what was really his own drive (since it was out of hours) while twice the limit! It does happen.
So he was driving his car whilst over prescribed limit.
It was pub carpark which was deamed to be a public place where the public had access at the material time (due to the fact the dray lorry was there)
It wasnt his driveway really as it was a carpark! So offence complete as there were no barriers preventing public access and probably no signage stating no pubic access out of serving hours.
It was pub carpark which was deamed to be a public place where the public had access at the material time (due to the fact the dray lorry was there)
It wasnt his driveway really as it was a carpark! So offence complete as there were no barriers preventing public access and probably no signage stating no pubic access out of serving hours.
tigger1 said:
Simple solution - call and book a taxi, cast iron evidence that you didn't intend to drive home. Wouldn't recommend leaving keys in car.
Friend of mine did. It turned up along with the chinese takeaway he'd ordered as he was being arrested. Driver even stepped forward and told the arresting officer.
Went to court, where it was promptly laughed out.
Curious law this one, and yet another where you have to prove your innocence.
Be careful!
thinfourth said:
So what is the official definition of drunk in charge
Could some plodsworth charge me for drunk in charge if i have car keys in my pocket and i am see near my car?
Could some plodsworth charge me for drunk in charge if i have car keys in my pocket and i am see near my car?
Quite simply yes, or at least arrest you for it, and see what the custody sergeant says. The officer only has to believe you will drive. This would be difficult to prove if he had to haul you out of bed, but not so hard if you came out of a pub and started walking towards your car, whether you were going to drive it or not.
philthy said:
This would be difficult to prove if he had to haul you out of bed, but not so hard if you came out of a pub and started walking towards your car, whether you were going to drive it or not.
What you are saying is that even though there would be an obvious element of doubt , you can still get done? Does that not bring our entire legal system into doubt?
Edited by hedders on Friday 4th August 10:52
hedders said:
What you are saying is that even though there would be an obvious element of doubt , you can still get done? Does that not bring our entire legal system into doubt?
Element of doubt notwithstanding, if the officer says he believes you will drive, he will arrest you. It is then your job to prove your innocence, either to the custody sergeant, or later on in court.
Bringing our legal system into doubt? not for me, but some parts of it stink.
Some people believe in fairies you know ?
I know of at least one chap up in Norfolk who having driven to a party at a friend’s house out in the sticks with the intention of driving home after wards still sober was given the offer of a bed for the night at another friend’s house so he could have a few beers. As they are getting ready to leave he volunteers to phone a taxi, whilst on the phone he goes outside to get a few bits from the car and to secure it for the night. Unluckily for him a passing plod spots him and stops to investigate.
Plod: Good evening, is this your car sir?
Chap: (Sat in passenger seat) yes.
Plod: Been drinking at all tonight sir?
Chap: Yes, at the party here (to taxi on phone: yup 10 mins is fine)
Plod: You do realise it an offence to drive under the influence of alcohol.
Chap: Yes that’s why I'm calling a taxi
Plod: Would you mind blowing into this?
Chap: eh?
Plod them pulls him for being drunk in charge, chap even offers the phone to the policeman to confirm he's booking a taxi! Result: a six month ban and hefty fine IIRC
It does happen.
It’s not nice.
Plod: Good evening, is this your car sir?
Chap: (Sat in passenger seat) yes.
Plod: Been drinking at all tonight sir?
Chap: Yes, at the party here (to taxi on phone: yup 10 mins is fine)
Plod: You do realise it an offence to drive under the influence of alcohol.
Chap: Yes that’s why I'm calling a taxi
Plod: Would you mind blowing into this?
Chap: eh?
Plod them pulls him for being drunk in charge, chap even offers the phone to the policeman to confirm he's booking a taxi! Result: a six month ban and hefty fine IIRC
It does happen.
It’s not nice.
philthy said:
hedders said:
What you are saying is that even though there would be an obvious element of doubt , you can still get done? Does that not bring our entire legal system into doubt?
Element of doubt notwithstanding, if the officer says he believes you will drive, he will arrest you. It is then your job to prove your innocence, either to the custody sergeant, or later on in court.
Bringing our legal system into doubt? not for me, but some parts of it stink.
Some people believe in fairies you know ?
Thought as much
keys get locked in the car and i return with the spare set the following day
What a
ed up country we live inphilthy said:
Element of doubt notwithstanding, if the officer says he believes you will drive, he will arrest you. It is then your job to prove your innocence, either to the custody sergeant, or later on in court.
That really sucks...How on earth could I prove i had decided to walk home??
You don't have to answer that, I know i couldn't
Added: Plus the fact that in court i would be giving testimony as to my thought process one drunken night months ago..hardly likely to be taken seriously.
Edited by hedders on Friday 4th August 11:40
My brother returned to his mates car because he'd had enough to drink nd wanted to sleep it off. He tried the doors, which were locked, but the hatchback wasn't. He climbed in, snuggled up in his jacket on the back seat and closed his eyes. Moments later, a tap on the window. He was arrested for drunk in charge. He spent the night in the cells in middlemoor nick. He protested his innocence, explaining the circumstances. The following morning, someone realised that he had no car keys on him, and they had found none in the vehicle. The car was gone from where it was parked as well. Hmmmm, do you think they might have started to realise that he may just possibly have been telling the truth?
They still made him walk home (13 miles) and he never got the bunch of keys they took off him back either.
Now I know policework is a tough job, I've got several mates who are "job", but some of your colleagues are really letting you down lads.
They still made him walk home (13 miles) and he never got the bunch of keys they took off him back either.
Now I know policework is a tough job, I've got several mates who are "job", but some of your colleagues are really letting you down lads.
thinfourth said:
"Drunk in charge of a vehicle" Now as far as i know you do not have to even be in the car to be charged with this as detailed by a case where a business man weaved out of a pub to his car to retrieve his mobile from the boot. other cases such as someone sleeping it off in the back seat and getting charged drunk in charge.
Seriously?
You can get a "drunk in charge" just for getting a phone out of the boot?
I can only hope that there was more to this case, it seems ridiculous taken at face value.
Sleeping it off in the car and getting your stuff out of the boot seem like a clear case of not being "drunk in charge"! I'd hope that there was more to this as well.
Seriously, in order to be "drunk in charge" don't the controls of the car have to be activated by putting a key in the ignition? If it was me I'd certainly argue that I couldn't possibly be in control of anything with controls that hadn't been switched on and no attempt made by me or anyone else to switch them on.
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