Are the overhead cameras on the M25 always live?
Discussion
I'm sure I saw a sign for a merge in turn thing somewhere. Trouble was everyone was queing in single file way before the sign and I was getting grief for going up the outside lane (at a sedate pace). I get so fed up with poxy drivers who don't understand anything but the status quo and apply no thought to their driving at all. 
There is a merge in turn for peak times near Loughborough off the A6. As you say Ted the main problem is morons that don't look at signs or even think what they're doing. It would be nice to have adverts like that (i remember one about using the right lane at roundabouts) but instead we get cr*p skidding cars telling us its ok to do 30mph instead of reading the road and traveling at appropiate speed.
what do people think about undertaking?
This doesnt really apply during 'normal' congested times, but it would be great when motorways are a bit busier and tw*ts just sit in the middle and outside lanes, whilst the inside lane is often completely clear....
I suspect, with current driving standars, it would cause a bit of carnage but would be interested in a pilot!
I trhink the variable bit on the 25 is good during busy times - there was a case in court where someone got flashed, at 1:00am, going through a 40 at 70. It was dismissed because they felt the cameras were being incorrectly operated.....
Night
On French autoroutes I've noticed signs on the overhead gantries saying something along the lines of, "A l'autoroute aussi, on roule a droite", which basically means "we drive on the right on motorways too". I don't think anyone would argue that French lane discipline, at least on the motorways, is far better than it is over here.
I was in the left hand lane of an empty M40 a couple of nights ago and passed a saxo sitting in the right hand lane. At that point, each carriageway is four lanes wide, there wasn't another car in sight but this saxo just sat there. It didn't even move after I went past. Is it just ignorance? If so, would a simple sign campaign, such as that in France, help to remind people about what they should be doing? Answers on a postcard.
Russell
quote:Undertaking has become popular on the Edinburgh bypass and the M8 Glasgow to Edinburgh which are both only dual carriage way. I was dead against it at first but I am coming round to accepting it where safe. Some muppets just don't know there is a left lane there although the electronic displays often state "Please allow for overtaking".
what do people think about undertaking?
Yes, but our typically polite signs don't work !
A sarcastic comment or one that flashes up is far more effective if you ask me.
For example, in the UK we have slogans like "If you drink, don't drive". In Australia it was "If you drink and drive, you're a bloody idiot !!". You tell me which is more effective.....
If you speed on the roads in the UK you get flashed by a poxy camera whereas in France they flash up your own little sign on the autoroute reminding you that the limit is 130kph (not mph, which is very nearly what we were doing !!!). You tell me which is more likely to leave you calm so that you naturally back off a bit.....
Treat people like children or too softly and they'll just ignore the message. Make it a bit more punchy and it will a) have some immediate effect but b) probably get people talking about it down the pub, etc. which could then have a wider impact.
Yes, we'd all agree that driver standards need to be improved, but better enforcement of our traffic laws would also help sort out the muppets (and might allow some leeway in the Gatso argument). If crap drivers don't believe they're doing anything wrong then they're unlikely to change their habits.....
In New Zealand it is perfectly legal to overtake on the left, but people still get annoyed about being "cut up". You see, there are ignorant drivers everywhere. If you are a fast driver, undertaking is great as you can carve your way thru traffic with ease. I still find that I am tempted to do the same on UK roads when right lane crawlers refuse to move left but usually resist the temptation. The downside of being able to undertake is that lane discipline can be appaling, though not always. For example, in Wellington there are great big signs saying "Keep left unless overtaking" and surprise, surprise, it actually seems to work. And therein may be the lesson. For a relatively tiny amount of money you can put signs next to motorways reminding people to keep left and avoid the need to undertake in the first place.
Funniest thing I have seen that is vaguely related to undertaking was when I was on a Porsche Club of New Zealand trip in a queue of around 25 Porsches travelling along a dual carriageway. Two cars full of oldies were travelling along side by side at a snail's pace completely oblivious to the queue behind them. The lead Porsche was a race prepped 930 covered in sponsorship and after "monstering" them for a while, he decided to overtake on the grass then proceeded to gently push the two cars on to the hard shoulder so that all the others could pass by. The oldies looked incandesant with fury and righteous indignation as we passed by.
Cheers,
Rihcard
I was driving on the M1 at 3.30 am and came accross a car in the middle lane doing 60mph. It amazes me, even when I pulled up behind them and flashed my lights - nothing. They got a few hand gestures as I passed them on on the right and returned to the left hand lane.
I have seen police cars ignore the middle lane driver though. I wish they would pull them up. I know they do in Europe (Germany esp.).
Its illegal to undertake and i'm sure the boys in blue would pull you up for that. So something should be done about the middle lane driver. Perhaps the Australian sign idea would wake them up.
If they are going to continue with having it illegal to undertake there should definitely be a wake up campaign, the brasher the better.
I don't know if this is the case in every state, but in Oregon and Washington (state) in the USA, you can "overtake" on either side on the freeway (speed limit only 60, though, if I remember right), which terrified me at first, but works fine in practice. I'm all for changing to that, it would be good for my blood pressure!
Hmmm. It may work in the US and NZ, but I can't help thinking that many drivers on UK motorways seem to be fairly incapable of checking their mirrors before pulling out into a faster lane. Imagine the carnage (and brain overload) of these drivers if they have to check for faster vehicles overtaking on the inside before they pull back into a slower lane as well! 
Whatever we seem to talk about on Pistonheads these days, it seems to come back (with depressing regularity) to the need to improve the standard of driving in this country before we do anything else.
Depressing, isn't it? (in best Marvin voice)
Whatever we seem to talk about on Pistonheads these days, it seems to come back (with depressing regularity) to the need to improve the standard of driving in this country before we do anything else.
Depressing, isn't it? (in best Marvin voice)
Agreed JonRB, it is depressing seeing drivers paying no attention to whats happening around them. The biggest problem I feel with middle lane drivers though is that they don't know that they are doing anything wrong. Even with a friend sitting up and pointing at them and showing where they should be they just look blank. I would like to see a campaign on middle lane drivers as I'm sure it increases risks and accidents.
BTW does anybody remember that McDonalds advert, where the driver drives straight down the middle lane?
Middle and right hand lane hoggers drive me nuts, especially on the M5 south bound J13-15, (ok so I drive that a lot).
I love the idea of sign posts, if they worked it would; 1. Improve the standard of driving in this country (in one area at least) 2. reduce congestion and increase traffic flow 3. Reduce stress levels in drivers 4. Reduce the need for BMW's to tailgate, etc etc you all know the others, and the result is fewer accidents.
Basically we get an additional lane opened up for the cost of a few sign posts. We're happy, government happy and tree huggers happy (can't be helped).
Soooo... How do we do it then?
Can't the motorway overhead signs be set to deliver random road safety messages when they're not being used for specific messages? In France one often sees 'Keep your distance', or 'Watch your speed' or similar.
The wording has to be correct, however, as covered in postings above. I do recall driving around Glasgow where the overhead signs were showing polite messages that prompted one of my passengers to suggest they ought to add 'Have your phoned your mother recently?'.
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