Crazy

[swilly]

This debate over the definition of an ambulance is just another indication of the fcuked up country we live in ruled by faceless-talentless-bureacrats dumping ridiculous red tape everywhere ancompletely missing the real-world point.

The guy was delivering an organ for transplantation FFS.
He should have had a police escort, and a pat on the back.
An ambulance is or should be, any fcuking vehicle out doing what ambulances do.

[madcop]

tuscansix said:

madcop said:....the puzzle palaces attached to New Labour.

Now that is a good comment. I presume that you'll be on duty over Pistonfest and so won't be able to make it, as it would be good to meet you.

News on that front. I may be at Pistonfest but am awaiting a decision on time off work. If I am, it will be on the 'Ride Drive' stand as I have been invited by Julian that runs the car side. Maybe see you there?

[apache]

faxed this to my MP, wonder if he'll reply this time?

Dear Mr Andrew Lansley CBE,

I believe I have sent you a fax (or two) in the past regarding the present Governments obsession with Speed Cameras and their unwavering belief that they will cure all the bad driving habits in Britian.
My fax regards the recent debacle regarding the Lincolnshire police and their prosecution of an Ambulance driver. This chap was delivering a human organ (that saved a life) and is now in fear of losing his job, surely this is an indication of how ridiculous things have become.
Scameras are being attacked throughout the land, strong evidence exists to show they do nothing to improve road fatalaties, motorists are fed up with being fleeced for a minor indescretion whilst Judges let burglarers walk free. We need better driver education, more Public Information films, bring back the green cross code, move the cameras to the towns where they will contribute to road safety, re-engineer dangerous roads to prevent accidents rather than profit from them.
The Police are losing credability with the general public because they have to deal with them. They bring criminals to court, the system lets them walk free, meanwhile the most heavily policed sector of the community is the motorist. The balance needs redressing will this happen under a Conservative Government?

Yours sincerely PJ Best

[tuscansix]

madcop said:
News on that front. I may be at Pistonfest but am awaiting a decision on time off work. If I am, it will be on the 'Ride Drive' stand as I have been invited by Julian that runs the car side. Maybe see you there?

Excellent!

[toad_oftoadhall]

Then pay more attention to what you are doing. If you must take a risk, then do it where you are less likely to get captured!

Where would you suggest that was less risky than an empty national speed limit dual carriageway? As for attention the vans were in plain view. Just had orange lights which isn't playing fair IMHO.

Do you think that is any different in any profession?
Police officers get points too you know!

And often they don't resign afterwards which is a disgrace. What next arsonists in the firebrigade?

Believe me when I tell you, we smell the coffee good and strong Every minute of every day dealing with the public and our political direction makes it pungent to say the least.

Unfortunately the Police are driven by Political motivation, not just from Parliament and the Home Office but from Chief Officers that have to make Political decisions to keep their masters in Govt departments from removing their leadership and sending in the hit squads to improve targets set in the puzzle palaces attached to New Labour.

New Labour doesn't turn honest people into criminals. ANd when the words New Labour gives me features on NIPs I will hate them too.

Ambulance and Fire brigade staff do not interfere with what people want to do

Bingo! Most people want to drive safely, but slightly over 70. Let us and catch the odd criminal and the police will be national heros. It really is that simple.

(In fact Fire brigade staff actually don't do much at all really, believe me, I spent enough time covering their dispute over Christmas)

Agree.

So the Public hate the Police then? Hmmmm thats quite a dramatic statement to make and I would actually stick my neck out to say that you are in fact wrong.

A few minutes ago you were complaining the public did not give you a fair hearing. QED. Hate is a strong word but I don't relish the fact that 6 officers were on an 8 minute stretch of dual carriageway. DId they really have nothing to do? THe will probably be going to court for me to claim it was all one offence? Is that good use of thier time? Maybe not hate but extreme dislike.

I think you would find that even if the Police were to down tools for just one day and let everyone get on with things, there would be a little more appreciation of what the Police actually do.

Try it! Try putting those 6 officers off the dual carriageway and onto crime detection. See what happens. If done on a national scale you'd fine people buying yuo drinks all night like soldiers returning form Dunkurk because you would be v. popular indeed.

And the Police don't? (help the public)

In my first hand experiance the police have never caugth a burglar. They have prosecuted over 30 people that I know personally. What does that tell you? Am I just unlucky?

But we do catch most of the burglars. The problem is that the system lets them go to do it again and again.

Yeah the courts are a joke too, but maybe with a few less motorists clogging them up wouldn't hurt.

The system is moulded by what 'the public' are willing to accept. Until 'the public' start to put pressure on Politicians that they are not going to put up with burglars any longer and are truly fed up to the back teeth with speed cameras, then they will continue to flourish. This is not the fault of the Police

Whilst I agree, it's Gwent Police written on the NIP's. Who am I going to blame?

Niether is this. I have never met a Toad I didn't like

;-)

(unless it happened to be climbing out of someone elses window at 3 in the morning with a TV under its arm)

I can honestly say I've never stolen a transvestite!

And who's fault is this?

Gwent police. If residnetial roads were policed as well as the A449 there would be no more crime of any kind.

Is it the fault of the Police?
I don't think so. I take it you are aware of the rules but either decided to ignore them or happened to be driving with your thumb up your ar5e during that particular 8 minutes

Empty road. Miles of visibilty. (Vans plainly in view - just didn't know what they were.) Last night on the M23 in a 50mph contraflow a traffic car passed me like I was stationary. THat 50 limit is to protect workmen. Who's a 70 limit in the middle of nowhere protecting?

And I suspect that they will not be sympathetic to you even though you feel that you are being unfairly treated.

I'm well aware of that. The police have chosen to create an attitude of mutual distrust and dislike. It's worked. I will go to court. I may be lucky, I may not either way the Rozzers will have wasted hours of police time on me and made me and most people that know me dislike them a little bit more.

P.S. It is not the Police that prosecute anyone. This is done by CPS. They are the body that decides on who goes to court or not as do the public if they are given tan opportunity under the FPT system.
The Police are purely providers and collators of information which they pass onto public individuals or the CPS to decide which course to take (a driver issued with a FPT has the option to request to be heard by a court). This has been the way it works for over 20 years now when the CPS were devised by Govt.

I understand that. My point is this. SPeeding *should* be illegal. 30 and 40 limits need protecting. Many other limits do in many other places. So the CPS must act on information supplied by the police. But the police focus resources on detecting speeding on safe roads because this is a police decision.

In other words the police should use discretion and only provide evidence against speeding drivers who are potentially dangerous. Surely this is why they have the discretion.



Hate the Police by all means, just as the scumbag burglar/car thief does but if so, when a personal situation needs the help of the Police to resolve such as an assault or some other personal problem, then remember your principles and do not be a hypocrit. I have seen it many times. Scum bags that despise and cause the Police all sorts of problems who eventually get their comeuppance. They are then straight on the phone demanding that action is taken to right their wrong.

Situation, No and Win come to mind

there are not enough Policemen/women in the world to stand watching over every motorway bridge to stop this sort of crass stupidity by undoubtedly a 'Yoof (or group of yooves) having a bit of a laugh after 3 bottles of Stella'

So why are there spare resources to procecute me? Am I that much worse than a murderer? Trust me I'm not.

Thanks. You are right. In fact in the last 8 years, I think I have only issued about 3 FPT tickets and none of them were for speeding and none were awarded to 'Toads'

Good! As timid and naturally law abiding creatures we should be treated with great leniency! In my youth I have been given an FPT by a live traffic rozzer and it came with a bollocking and some good advice, which is how these things should be done. 9 points in the posts teaches nobody anything.

I hope you are successful in getting 2 of your offences dealt with as one. Don't do it where you are likely to get caught and if you do, remove thumb from ar5e

Many thanks! I've got my fingers crossed!




>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Thursday 29th May 14:26

[ledfoot]

Found this story from October 2002

Tuesday, 8 October, 2002

Row over ambulance speeding tickets

An ambulance service is spending hours dealing with speeding tickets issued to its drivers on 999 calls, it has been claimed.
East Anglian Ambulance Service has been sent 1,050 speeding tickets by Cambridgeshire Police in the past 12 months, said ambulance resource manager Philip Balls.

In the same period it received 27 speeding tickets from Suffolk, and none from Norfolk.

Both counties are also covered by the service.

He said: "On one day a driver could have between six and 10 forms to fill in.

"Our concern is that the drivers might start slowing down to avoid the paperwork, which could affect our eight minute emergency response times."

"There is the speeding ticket to complete and there is an exemption form to complete and send back to police.

"It is time-consuming and other counties don't do it, so I don't know why Cambridgeshire do.

Mr Balls said most speeding tickets come from cameras near Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge.

"Regardless of who you are you need to be able to justify your speed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2307983.stm

>> Edited by ledfoot on Thursday 29th May 20:26

[halk]

Madcop said :

cut
Hate the Police by all means, just as the scumbag burglar/car thief does but if so, when a personal situation needs the help of the Police to resolve such as an assault or some other personal problem, then remember your principles and do not be a hypocrit. I have seen it many times. Scum bags that despise and cause the Police all sorts of problems who eventually get their comeuppance. They are then straight on the phone demanding that action is taken to right their wrong.
cut

I think that most people don't hate the police but I would bet that quite a lot are disappointed with their perceived view of policing. My house has been burgled 3 times, someone broke into my garage and stole my mountain bike, my car has been keyed twice ( 1000 GBP repair bills). All the police have done so far is to give me 2 speeding tickets and a fine for having a slightly expired tax disc.

If I'd bought 'The Police' from a shop I'd ask for my money back.

[hertsbiker]

Toad is right, and what he says makes sense. Madcop is also right, and likewise. However.. speeding isn't a serious crime, and shouldn't be treated like it is. We got on very well in the past without all these restrictions, and the Police got a lot more respect from the Public. The cops have a tough job, made even tougher by Prats in Whitehall demanding they nursemaid the public. Well wake up Whitehall - we don't f**kin' need it. Let the cops chase the real crims, road users use the road without fear of a nicking, and pedestrians stay on the goddamn pavement which they haven't even paid for.
C

[mybrainhurts]

On Yorkshire TV tonight.

A civilian company that co-ordinates and delivers organs/blood in liveried and blue strobed vans says it has often been threatened with prosecution by Lincs police.

They have no problems with other police forces.

[toad_oftoadhall]

BTW I trust everyone will be writing strongly worded e-mails to:

[e-mail]

They haven't replied to mine yet.

I started with a request for their clear up rates for property cirme then suggested they had too much spare resource.

Of course there might well be more to this case than meets the eye but the Rozzers have caused me and my family/friends as much trouble as they legallly can so I don't have a problem with giving a tiny bit back.

[loaf]

Chrisgr31 said:

loaf said: Thus the RRVs you mention are not ambulances per se, ... they aid the overall 'ambulance purpose', viz. the transport of suitably trained and qualified personnel to a location where the ambulance purpose (treating the sick or injured) is to be carried out.

Chrisgr31 said:
So therefore it must be time to write to every safety camera partnership asking how many of these non-exempt vehicles they have let off in error.

RRVs are exempt if being used for 'ambulance purposes' - getting a QAT/paramedic/doctor to a casualty is an ambulance purpose, so exemptions can be claimed. Transporting organs for transplant is not currently within the scope of 'ambulance purposes'.

Come to that we will also be able to say that Scameras do cause lives (to be lost?) as paramedics and organs will, if they win, have to be driven around the country at legal speeds.

Which is no change from the current status quo. One of the most confusing and conflicting things about this whole fcukup is that the patient receiving the transplant can be transported under blue lights with the driver of the vehicle able to claim all exemptions but the organ to be transplanted into that patient can't. Go figure...

All it really proves is why people are so anti cameras in the first place. If this driver had been spotted by a police patrol I doubt he would have been stopped. Indeed might even have been offered an escort.

Probably - I doubt Traffic get many 'mercy dashes' these days, might have blown the cobwebs away a bit.

However as it was camera he faces charges. Where is the discretion which we all want?

Discretion is the most potent of all the powers granted to police officers. However, as long as things like looking at camera shots is outsourced to civvy firms who have to adhere to strict guidelines and are not allowed to use discretion (read common sense) then we will not see it. Remember, politicians and nappies have a lot in common; they should be changed regularly, and for exactly the same reason.


>> Edited by loaf on Friday 30th May 11:50

[CarZee]

halk said: If I'd bought 'The Police' from a shop I'd ask for my money back.

I think the mail-order sex toy principle applies... no one complains or asks for their money back because they're too embarrassed that they paid well over the odds for a bunch of battery powered cocks in the first place

(no offence, like.. )

>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Friday 30th May 12:00

[llamekcuf]

I think the mail-order sex toy principle applies... no one complains or asks for their money back because they're too embarrassed that they paid well over the odds for a bunch of battery powered cocks in the first place

(no offence, like.. )