Squaddies

Author
Discussion

Dizeee

Original Poster:

18,134 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Last night we had to stop two squaddies at 3am. Without going into detail there was a call about 2 drunken chaps making a nuisance of themselves, they were found fitting the description and so they were politely stopped.

Now they wee both drunk and said they were squaddies. After a brief intoduction it was apparent that they were drunk & boisterous and not worthy of much police action, and our intention (which is what we did) was have a quiet friendly word with them, gain a little rapport, just ask where they had been e.t.c. and let them on their way.

But despite being as laid back and friendly as we could have been, this turned into 45 minutes of fighting, all at their inititation. We got instantly abused, screamed at, insulted, the usual "you f*** maggots, you aint been there you aint been there - we protect you families whist you sleep at night, this i show you repay us, f this f that scream scream scream". One had to be cuffed he was being so excitable, whilst the other was constantly stepping up tpo us poiinting and shouting in our faces, and this ended in him slapping my colleauge in the face.

Now I have nothing but repsect for squaddies and what they do but you really should have seen the behaviour of these two last night. All I was thinking was that it was one of those moments you wish you could record and play it back to them a wek later when they were sober and calm. I find it hard to recall in 7 years of policing a similar example of people making an absolute shameful *it of themselves, and they made our job extremely difficult and unpleasant. I have dealt with a squaddie previously and similar circumstances applied.

So my question is, why do they seem to have such a problem with cops? Their behaviour made it obvious they just could not and would not be told, and because of what they did the thought they had the right to do whatever they wanted to anybody. I walked away from it all believeng that they really could not cope with their roles (signals apparently) and that this display had been evidence of them mentally trying to get over what they had seen out in Afghanistan (which s somewhere they mentioned they had been). We could not have been more patient, we gave them warning upon warning and oppurtunity upon oppurtunity to walk away, but they just got more and more aggressive and there is only so much pushing around you are prepared to take.

I just want some enlightment thats all, and I am not having a go at anyone on the forces, as I say I certainly would not want to do it and have respect for what they do. But any I deal with so far seem "uncontrollable".

esselte

14,626 posts

266 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
From what I've seen on TV this could apply to any drunk in the street.......

Dizeee

Original Poster:

18,134 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Yep - I know, and I have seen worse, and I am not saying it is just squaddies. But I would have thought there should be an element of comradery between certain types of people, or at least some understanding, i.e firwman, cops, army, navy, paramedics e.t.c.

I just can't see why "proffesionals" who should know better would be so difficult. They weren't rolling drunk at all, they could walk and talk fine, so we are not talking inebriated here. These two just wanted trouble, period.

Burgmeister

2,206 posts

209 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
They are jumped up little s in the main who thought they would join the army to be like rambo and impress their mates.

Ah well they are cannon fodder so what can we expect from them?

esselte

14,626 posts

266 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Dizeee said:
Yep - I know, and I have seen worse, and I am not saying it is just squaddies. But I would have thought there should be an element of comradery between certain types of people, or at least some understanding, i.e firwman, cops, army, navy, paramedics e.t.c.

I just can't see why "proffesionals" who should know better would be so difficult. They weren't rolling drunk at all, they could walk and talk fine, so we are not talking inebriated here. These two just wanted trouble, period.
Professionals..hmmmmm... Without wishing to insult anyone here they are professional fighters.Could that explain any of the attitude?

tuffer

8,849 posts

266 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Spent 12 years in the mob and witnessed this type of behaviour on a few occasions, luckily I am a happy drunk and have a remarkable self preservation instinct.....Copper arrives on scene and I shut up and play nice, mate acts a c0ck so I have to placate him and drag him off, worked 9/10 times but when he tried to nick a train in Denmark it all went Pete Tong!

Dizeee

Original Poster:

18,134 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
esselte said:
Dizeee said:
Yep - I know, and I have seen worse, and I am not saying it is just squaddies. But I would have thought there should be an element of comradery between certain types of people, or at least some understanding, i.e firwman, cops, army, navy, paramedics e.t.c.

I just can't see why "proffesionals" who should know better would be so difficult. They weren't rolling drunk at all, they could walk and talk fine, so we are not talking inebriated here. These two just wanted trouble, period.
Professionals..hmmmmm... Without wishing to insult anyone here they are professional fighters.Could that explain any of the attitude?
Well yes partly, I suppose their training and state of mind to do what they do means they are constantly "up there" in the adrenalin stakes. I just found it hard to accept the stupidity of it all, it's very rare that we get poked, prodded, slaped in the face, verbally abused, ignored and sworn at for such a prolonged period of time, all from someone who should know the score, and when we are trying to help them?

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

243 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Ahh that smell of a Barmaids apron....

They are attuned to fighting but bear in mind Military Discipline.

From 3 years in the RAF Police (Provost) and 30 years patrolling the area around Catterick and other Air Force establishments (far superior)
best method of attack is to adopt the voice of RSM 'Tibbie' Brittain (ask Dad).. STAND TO ATTENTYUION YEW ORRIBLE MAN etc. They are like putty.

Fair does though having been sold down the river in Iraq by Blair my heart goes out to them........they are only bairns in a very adult and dangerous world to them.

dvd

mark.h

5,713 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
ive got a few mates who are squaddies, when i go out with their mates ive seen how it all goes wrong, infact every time ive been out with em they've ended up in a fight, thing is ive also done mixed martial arts (MMA)for a good few years and im only a skinny lad, and by no means "hard" but i by no means worry about some drunk squaddie...from what ive seen your average squaddie can barely throw a disaplined punch sober,let alone when drunk, its just the rowdiness that they have instilled and the rep that they feel they have to maintain. as police i hope you took em down a peg! their CO would of loved to of heard they'd assaulted an officer im sure!!!

tvrslag

1,198 posts

254 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Signals is not what I would really call one of our finest or meanest fightening forces though.

To be fair the forces do attract people from every walk of life, chances are Dizzee just met two complete Pr@cks who would probably be complete pr@cks if they were in the army or directors at LLoyds bank.
If they had seen serious action in Afghanistan they could be suffering from PTSD or shell shock, and drinking might help these guys to releive this. Was this in a garrison town, were there no MP's to contact or senior officers around that you could have contacted? Normally the RSM or other Senior NCO is enough to keep these guys in line.
I think you will find that every garrison town has had its fair share of saturday night bust ups between the squaddies the locals and the police.
JIMHO

TTwiggy

11,486 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Whenever the braying classes bang on about 'national service' it's worth pointing out that the behaviour in the average garrison town is not exactly first rate...

Reminds me of when I was at Uni in Chatham, and three marines from the naval base started on my friend and his mate who were out for a takeaway after the pub. Unprovoked attack, because they were students, but what these three (very young) marines didn't know was that one of the students was a former junior all-england amateur middleweight champion in boxing - I'd love to know how they explained the bruises at the following day's parade

'beaten up by an art student, sarge'...

Cooperman

4,428 posts

249 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Did you hand them over to the MP's. If I remember correctly, for being drunk and disorderly in public, even if in civvies, they'll get at least 28 days inside, but if assaulting a civvie Police Officer is added they could get a while in the Colchester 'glasshouse' and that's not something they'll easily forget!

RaksP

760 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
well IMO its a natural instinct to "fight back" at someone who is accusing you of doing something you didnt do or dont belive is wrong to do! this becomes worse when drunk!

so this is a natural response to the situation and i think police officers need to start to take this into account and START TO USE DISCRETION otherwise the whole country will lose respect for the police and their authority(oops too late!!)

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

261 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Burgmeister said:
They are jumped up little s in the main who thought they would join the army to be like rambo and impress their mates.

Ah well they are cannon fodder so what can we expect from them?
Yes and today there is one less of them. Happy now?


Dizeee

Original Poster:

18,134 posts

205 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
The RMP were involved yes. I dont want to give away too much as obviously I am a bit tied as to details I can give. They were both "arrested" however by the RMP and we were told they would be fined in the morning. We took them back to barracks with the RMP.

Thats just it though, we did use our discretion, all of it... but these two just seemed to want to take on the world no matter who you were.

darren_S2

32 posts

201 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
dont think it particularly helps that you get sent somewhere, which can only be descrbed as hell on earth (i.e Afghan or Iraq). Where the norm becomes you walk down the street one day and everyone friendly to the next day that person wanting to put a rocket propelled grenade up your arse, to walking down the street and wondering whether some sniper has his sights trained on you wanting to ventilate your brain.

Then end of tour, you return home, no-one understands what you been through and you just get dumped back onto civvy street and told when to return. Yes everybody has the choice The last thing you want is someone in your face.

Then factor into the equation all of the training and discipline they already receive, much more than in civvie life and the fact that this is sort of drilled into you then that you do need to be aggressive and not be able to back down. What makes you a better/mature solider is the ability to know when to apply all this. When you are young and inexperienced then you maybe missing some of this maturity and hence why you get the outbreaks you do.

Yes there are a few "rambo's" present but it is the few that give the many the bad name.

Whilst I dont agree with the actions nor the circumstances of these guys, and probably the drink not helping I hope I have in someway answered the original poster's questions.

Burgmeister, if you think you can do a better job, pull on a uniform and get involved. With an attitude like that you should apply for mine field detection. My bets are on you will be in the back of a landrover sobbing for mummy within 24 hours.

ipsg.glf

1,590 posts

217 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
My bobby mate told me an interesting story the other week. A guy has too much to drink and passes out in a pub. Police are called and he is arrested for being drunk and incapable. Pulls himself round and is transported to custody, where his occupation is stated: Royal Military Policeman. Doh!

liner33

10,623 posts

201 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
People nowadays have a lot less time for the police and feel more hostile towards them generally, thats what you get when the government start passing unpopular laws. Cant help thinking recruiting standards have dropped in the Police as well

I used to be very pro police but experience in recent years has left me with the feeling i wouldnt p*ss on one if he was on fire. Wouldnt go out of my way to abuse one though

Lads will be lads whether in or out of uniform.


vonhosen

40,171 posts

216 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
It was happening 20 years ago, it's nothing new.

jshell

10,994 posts

204 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Don't think it's anything to do with what they've seen. I saw 3 severly mutilated bodies (1 dis-membered) in Lagos 6 weeks ago and didn't feel the need to get drunk and shout about it.

I think that unfortunately the police have lost all respect from the public for a great number of reasons. Some to do with the justice system not punishing people for the crimes they commit, some to do with target driven reaction and of course, the old fav on here - the war on the motorist. The police are the public face of the justice system and so are in the way of peoples real and perceived greivances. It's like screaming at the girl behind the counter when paying a parking fine in person - utterly misdirected. Wouldn't be a copper for anything due to the grief from every angle, though I imagine it could be a very rewarding job.