Inside a Camera Van
Discussion
Errmm.. yeah - I guess seeing is believing. I still think these bastard devices, particularly in the talivan outer shell, will be the final undoing of society and they should be stopped immediately. It's just not fair game.
In this case isn't it exactly the type of camera we actually want? 40mph limit, history of serious accidents, people sailing through at well over 50mph?
Its the empty dual carriageway/motorway on a dry sunny day cameras that piss me off!
Then again, as you said, I'll promptly change my tune when the inevitable happens and a £60 bill lands on my doormat.
Good post,
MC - Were you in a marked police car when you stopped to talk with the talivan? If so its more amazing people are getting flashed and zapped.
Perhaps it goes like;
Oh goodness said Mary the Lighting is close tonight. Dont worry said Fred her husband, Ive counted to 30 and there was no thunder so it cant be close. Strange though there was a double flash. But anyway our Volvo 340 will protect us as it has a Faraday cage dont you know.
Oh look Mary, did you see that nice policeman stop that big ugly van. I bet he was speeding. I hope he gets fined. I wounder what the van was filming?
Mary - no Dear, I didnt see the van or Policeman clearly, I dont have my driving glasses on today. Sorry.
Fred - Those nice policemen are getting younger everday. I dont think that one look old enough to have a licence....
love and kisses
SuperlightR
x
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 07:58
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 08:00
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 08:00
MC - Were you in a marked police car when you stopped to talk with the talivan? If so its more amazing people are getting flashed and zapped.
Perhaps it goes like;
Oh goodness said Mary the Lighting is close tonight. Dont worry said Fred her husband, Ive counted to 30 and there was no thunder so it cant be close. Strange though there was a double flash. But anyway our Volvo 340 will protect us as it has a Faraday cage dont you know.
Oh look Mary, did you see that nice policeman stop that big ugly van. I bet he was speeding. I hope he gets fined. I wounder what the van was filming?
Mary - no Dear, I didnt see the van or Policeman clearly, I dont have my driving glasses on today. Sorry.
Fred - Those nice policemen are getting younger everday. I dont think that one look old enough to have a licence....
love and kisses
SuperlightR
x
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 07:58
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 08:00
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th June 08:00
As always a cracking post Madcop.
Only one quibble-ette. Not slowing for the camera van doesn't mean someone hasn't seen it. I means there are unware of camera vans existing/of what they look like.
Mine were not looking very camera like at all. Also Gatso's placed behind a bridge are simply impossible to see if the road is not marked with lines of if a wet surface makes the lines hard to see.
One offence? That's encouraging.
I got a reply from the Chief Constable telling me he's forwarded my letter to him to the traffic (camera?) department.
Which seems odd becuase the RAC legal guy reckon only the Chief Constable could make the prosecute/not prosecute decision.
I'm *very* suspicious of RAC legal advice now.
Only one quibble-ette. Not slowing for the camera van doesn't mean someone hasn't seen it. I means there are unware of camera vans existing/of what they look like.
Mine were not looking very camera like at all. Also Gatso's placed behind a bridge are simply impossible to see if the road is not marked with lines of if a wet surface makes the lines hard to see.
For the information of Toad-oftoadhall, the two offences are looked upon as one in this force. In fact the operator told me that he had placed a dummy unit in the Gatso so that it appeared to capture drivers but no camera was installed, only the flash.
One offence? That's encouraging.
I got a reply from the Chief Constable telling me he's forwarded my letter to him to the traffic (camera?) department.
Which seems odd becuase the RAC legal guy reckon only the Chief Constable could make the prosecute/not prosecute decision.
I'm *very* suspicious of RAC legal advice now.
so the plan advances.. www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=57&t=42501
CarZee said: The day will come when you'll be able to arrest him for breach of the peace and incitement to riot, though. Have faith.
Most of those caught this morning by that van must have been driving with their thumbs up their ar5e (especailly those that were captured by the Gatso prior to the camera van).
What does it take to get people to understand that if they continue to exceed the limits in areas that are regular and well publicised speed enforcement areas, they will be processed and £60 or more removed from their wallets?
Sheep? Baaaaaaaaaaaa
In fact the operator told me that he had placed a dummy unit in the Gatso so that it appeared to capture drivers but no camera was installed, only the flash.
I've noticed that it doesnt take long before people realise a GATSO is fake (it's always a giveaway when they are activated by cars moving in the opposite direction) so if they didnt realise the van had a camera in it they would be oblivious.
Completely understandable if you ask me.
"I understood that only a Police officer has the capability of assessing speed and having it corroborated by a second device."
Reply "I think that has recently changed to allow civilians to take on the work alone"
He only thinks it has been changed? If this has not been written into Law then perhaps we have an interesting legal technicality here.
I can't be bothered to go through Madcops post and quote the relevant bits so will just make some comments.
I was interested that they were charging those driving away from the van. Presumably the front and side of the van is liveried so therefore there is little excuse to be speeding by the time has passed.
A jammer would appear to be effective against this van as the operator has no instruction on what to do if he can't get a reading!
The van doors are kept shut, therefore the rear livery can be seen. Therefore there is little excuse for not seeing the van as you drive towards it. However many Talivans actually have the rear doors open, and therefore are not clearly identifiable.
As has been stated in the Daily Mail today all drivers speed at some time or other, the important thing is to prevent inappropriate speed, or speeding whilst not paying attention. Therefore if there is every opportunity to see any method of speed enforcement be it a camera, whether fixed or mobile, or a police trap, and take action to reduce speed before being caught then being caught is deserved!
I was interested that they were charging those driving away from the van. Presumably the front and side of the van is liveried so therefore there is little excuse to be speeding by the time has passed.
A jammer would appear to be effective against this van as the operator has no instruction on what to do if he can't get a reading!
The van doors are kept shut, therefore the rear livery can be seen. Therefore there is little excuse for not seeing the van as you drive towards it. However many Talivans actually have the rear doors open, and therefore are not clearly identifiable.
As has been stated in the Daily Mail today all drivers speed at some time or other, the important thing is to prevent inappropriate speed, or speeding whilst not paying attention. Therefore if there is every opportunity to see any method of speed enforcement be it a camera, whether fixed or mobile, or a police trap, and take action to reduce speed before being caught then being caught is deserved!
chrisgr31 said: The van doors are kept shut, therefore the rear livery can be seen. Therefore there is little excuse for not seeing the van as you drive towards it!
Yes but people assume i fthey see a marked police *van* in a layby it's searching for evidence of somehting...
...until you get close enought to see the scamera...
toad_oftoadhall said:
chrisgr31 said: The van doors are kept shut, therefore the rear livery can be seen. Therefore there is little excuse for not seeing the van as you drive towards it!
Yes but people assume i fthey see a marked police *van* in a layby it's searching for evidence of somehting...
...until you get close enought to see the scamera...
Personally I slow whenever I see a marked police vechile, as you never know what they are doing, whether they have a speed gun with them, or whether they will radio their colleagues. I doubt the latter happens but not something I want to risk!
Very informative post Mc.
I think the idea of placing the van by the camera is to target those who slow down for it then speed up immediately after, which is what they have been doing with the vans in my local area.
I suppose its fairly decent that they were also giving an almost 10mph chance to "speeders" in the area as well.
If anyone did get caught, I'd say they had a pretty fair chance. A Gatso, then a van a short distance away from it, hardly rocket science to control your speed around these areas is it?
I think the idea of placing the van by the camera is to target those who slow down for it then speed up immediately after, which is what they have been doing with the vans in my local area.
I suppose its fairly decent that they were also giving an almost 10mph chance to "speeders" in the area as well.
If anyone did get caught, I'd say they had a pretty fair chance. A Gatso, then a van a short distance away from it, hardly rocket science to control your speed around these areas is it?
On the subject of the vehicles markings:
Lots of vans now have flourescent (sp?) markings on the rear doors, the utility companies works vehicles spring to mind. Spotting a van with stipes on the doors doesn't immediately make you think it's the plod (or a tax van) any more.
ALso, when the weather is reasonably hot & dry there can be significant heat haze from the road surface. This makes it possible to see a vehicle, but not always to tell its make/colour/markings until you're quite close to it.
Lots of vans now have flourescent (sp?) markings on the rear doors, the utility companies works vehicles spring to mind. Spotting a van with stipes on the doors doesn't immediately make you think it's the plod (or a tax van) any more.
ALso, when the weather is reasonably hot & dry there can be significant heat haze from the road surface. This makes it possible to see a vehicle, but not always to tell its make/colour/markings until you're quite close to it.
mybrainhurts said: Thanks, MC, that was very interesting.
"It was raining hard and visibility was reasonable but not good (good enough for me to see the van before I passed the Gatso camera 400 meters away)"
Did you see the photos? Is the quality good in poor visibility?
Same question for the long lens?
Yes I did see the photos. In fact he took one of me on my passage towards him at 38 mph. It was captured at 200 meters and was very clear although it was raining.
I was not particularly recognisable in the photo but he explained that when the video tape is taken into the FPT office, the equipment used to print the photo gives a much better resolution than the one in the van.
My Police vehicle was marked and I parked it directly in front of the camera van. I could not be seen from the rear until fairly close but could be clearly seen by traffic from the other direction on the other carraigeway. I can only assume that those caught on the other carriageway must have been thinking that the camera van only targets vehicles that approach it from the rear and not the opposite direction. This is in fact wrong.
The operator told me that there are over 300 fixed camera sites in this force and only 30 cameras to place in them. That is why dummy units are installed which just activate the flash.
The operator told me that all they were interested in doing was slowing people down in built up areas. He is not on any performance target and would prefer it if everybody did not pass his van at in excess of the permitted limit for that area.
He also told me that he has only had a couple of instances where drivers have stopped and confronted him about what he is doing. He is supplied with a Police radio in case of trouble but has never had to use it.
He stated that occasionally when a builder type van with several occupants passes, he will get called a "wank3r" but that is no problem, because generally, he has that persons photograph within the video tape and thinks to himself "Who is the wank3r now then, if you couldn't see this van from that distance haha"
He stated that in forces that are in the capping off scheme, the vehicles used for mobile camera sites should be highly conspicuous with their markings.
This however is not a necessity. Those forces that are not in the capping off scheme do not bother to mark up the backs of the vans they use.
The operator told me that there are over 300 fixed camera sites in this force and only 30 cameras to place in them. That is why dummy units are installed which just activate the flash.
The operator told me that all they were interested in doing was slowing people down in built up areas. He is not on any performance target and would prefer it if everybody did not pass his van at in excess of the permitted limit for that area.
He also told me that he has only had a couple of instances where drivers have stopped and confronted him about what he is doing. He is supplied with a Police radio in case of trouble but has never had to use it.
He stated that occasionally when a builder type van with several occupants passes, he will get called a "wank3r" but that is no problem, because generally, he has that persons photograph within the video tape and thinks to himself "Who is the wank3r now then, if you couldn't see this van from that distance haha"
He stated that in forces that are in the capping off scheme, the vehicles used for mobile camera sites should be highly conspicuous with their markings.
This however is not a necessity. Those forces that are not in the capping off scheme do not bother to mark up the backs of the vans they use.
toad_oftoadhall said:
chrisgr31 said: The van doors are kept shut, therefore the rear livery can be seen. Therefore there is little excuse for not seeing the van as you drive towards it!
Yes but people assume i fthey see a marked police *van* in a layby it's searching for evidence of somehting...
...until you get close enought to see the scamera...
...'Searching for evidence of something'
: 
Speed maybe? 
I had a dodgy moment when I spotted a van with door open in a layby on the A5 a while back. Wasn't until I got close I saw the camera. I had just overtaken in a "spirited" fashion, then slowed back down to something close to the limit (), but wasn't sure what speed they might have clocked. Must have been OK as I didn't hear anything about it.
Anyway, I now take more care whenever I see a layby sign, and monitor more closely for parked vans of any type. Ditto on motorway flyovers. I have noticed a tendency for vans to park on the far side of the road over dual carriageways, reducing the chances of being spotted.
), but wasn't sure what speed they might have clocked. Must have been OK as I didn't hear anything about it. Anyway, I now take more care whenever I see a layby sign, and monitor more closely for parked vans of any type. Ditto on motorway flyovers. I have noticed a tendency for vans to park on the far side of the road over dual carriageways, reducing the chances of being spotted.
[Devil's advocate] So you sit in a camera van whilst its rain and cars are going by well over the speed limit. So how many accidents occurred on a road so dangerous that it needs two fixed cameras and one mobile. No doubt there have been serious/fatal accidents at the site but is this statistically significant when you take into account speeds and number of vehicles?[Devil's advocate]
As always Madcop very informative and much appreciated.
As always Madcop very informative and much appreciated.
Did you ask the guy how many drunk, drugged, uninsured drivers he'd caught that day. How many vehicles passed unhindered with defective tyres, no MOT, etc... The Talivan in my area REGULARLY parks sideways on to the road hiding the rear orange/yellow chevrons. All you see when used like this is a white van with laser stuck out of a little black window. This is in a county where "netting-off" is in force!!!
>> Edited by profiler on Thursday 5th June 18:37
>> Edited by profiler on Thursday 5th June 18:37
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