140 mph punishment.
Discussion
m-five said:
lucozade said:
Don't accept your point mate, nobody is safe at 140mph HOWEVER much training they've had.
Ever thought of human error?
Q) So at what speed does driving become safe?
A) It doesn't, even at 0mph there is a chance of killing someone with your engine emissions, or a 10mph by parking on someone's head!
Therefore all cars should be banned and everyone should be wrapped up in bubble warp, until they find out that bubble wrap is inadvertently suffocating 100,000 people a year and gets banned.
There is nothing is 100% safe - even a safe is not 100% safe!
You can only say something is 'safer' than something else. So while I agree 140mph is less safe than 70mph on a motorway, I also state that 140mph on the motorway is safer than 40mph is past a school at leaving time - but which one will get you put in jail/banned/castrated, etc.
It's not about being safe. The training is there to make you a safer driver and to minimize risk not to eliminate risk. We might all think we're good drivers but let's face it many that do aren't. It's easy to slate the police driver training when most don't have a clue what it consists of. I'm sure everybody here could learn something from it even a current police driver.
lucozade said:
Don't accept your point mate, nobody is safe at 140mph HOWEVER much training they've had.
Ever thought of human error?
I didn't say 'safe', I said 'safeR' which, as posted above, is a differnet thing. Advanced police drivers are (probably) safeR at 140mph than an uneducated prat at 70mph. Human error is MUCH more likely WITHOUT the benefit of advanced training than with it.
Lets get some facts straight about this position and the police
1. Police training is hard and long at advanced level, not everyone taking the course actually passes it.
2. When Police vehicles travel at very high speed, they have competent (mostly
) people who have trained at that speed driving them.
3. Police vehicles travelling at high speed will normally have some sort of warning equipment attached to them and activated whilst they are exceeding the limit affording them some protection.
4. Police vehicles are exempt in law from speeding restrictions and some traffic sign compliance. They are not exempt from offences such as dangerous or careless driving.
5. Police drivers are fully aware of the risks of travelling at high speed, because they regularly attend incidents where others (not usually Police but unfortunately sometimes) have been unlucky, to clear up the resulting mess.
6. Travelling at very high speed on public roads requires complete and utter attention to the task, fully for the full length of the task in hand.
7. Driving on public roads at high speed is dangerous and should not be done by anyone that does not have the relevant skills and the opportunity to practice this regularly.
8. Unforseen occurences may happen even to the best and most experienced drivers.
9. No one is infallible!
10. prosecution is probable if it goes wrong.
11. The public expect a fast response to what they perceive to be emergencies. Depending on the degree of the emergency assessed by the attending officer will reflect the amount of performance he uses to get to the incident. No Police officer I know wants to end the shift in an ambulance or on a mortuary slab.
12. Whether you agree or not, unless you have taken a full Police advanced course which will not be available to you unless you have passed the standard course with good marks showing potential for further training, you cannot understand what is involved or how the system operates. Criticism is all too easy from armchair generals.
13. Lots of people don't like the Police, That is apparent from many of the posts on this site Any opportunity that someone gets to have a 'pop' is gratefully taken, much of which is done as laymen.
14. No one joins the Police to be liked. That was not my principle reason for joining and I do not care if I am liked or not. Nor do most other Police officers. Many people do not like me. I can live with that and myself. Hopefully those that hate me most are those in which I have a significant affect on their lives. Most police are of the same opinion.
15. Laws are there for the guidance of everyone sonthat the society we live in runs as smoothly as possible with the least damage to people and their property.
Most burglars and drug dealers do not like the laws on theft and drugs either, just as those who drive cars do not like laws on speed.
If those that do not like a particular law and chose to ignore it because it suits them should expect and accept the problem as an occupational hazard.
The court system is there for those who have been captured to have their opportunity to rebut the facts placed before it.
I accept that is not easy to burgle or drug abuse/deal by mistake and these are concious decisions and subject of criminal intent.
To inadvertently take a life or seriously injure someone as a result of just a mistake in a ton of metal is no less serious and the law reflects that.
I say this again and again. If you do not want to be caught for speeding, then do not do it in areas where you are likely to get caught. There are plenty of places that you can do so with minimal risk to anyone else. Failing that, pay the money and take it on a track.
The Police have lawful excuse to break speed limits for policing purposes. You can whinge and moan as much as you like but this has been decided by Parliament and for the benefit of the people that the Police serve.
Public servants are looked down on by many as no hopers and losers on an easy street package paid for by tax payers.
Public sector workers pay tax too you know and lots of it. They do not have the benefit of tax allowances on their business expenses and any other thing they can fiddle from the exchequer.
Public sector workers train hard to try to deliver the sort of service at grass root level that should be expected by those that need them.
There are free loaders, the sick, lame and lazy in every job and occupation, not just Public Sector occupations.
Many Police officers do the job because it is rewarding work, not in a financial way but gratifying when it works well. It is full of frustration and set backs but necessary and fulfilling work.
It is about time that some of those who post on this site started to think outside the very small box they live in!
Rant over.
By the way, This thread has seen the departure of Gemmini from the site. He has mailed me to explain why.
1. Police training is hard and long at advanced level, not everyone taking the course actually passes it.
2. When Police vehicles travel at very high speed, they have competent (mostly
) people who have trained at that speed driving them. 3. Police vehicles travelling at high speed will normally have some sort of warning equipment attached to them and activated whilst they are exceeding the limit affording them some protection.
4. Police vehicles are exempt in law from speeding restrictions and some traffic sign compliance. They are not exempt from offences such as dangerous or careless driving.
5. Police drivers are fully aware of the risks of travelling at high speed, because they regularly attend incidents where others (not usually Police but unfortunately sometimes) have been unlucky, to clear up the resulting mess.
6. Travelling at very high speed on public roads requires complete and utter attention to the task, fully for the full length of the task in hand.
7. Driving on public roads at high speed is dangerous and should not be done by anyone that does not have the relevant skills and the opportunity to practice this regularly.
8. Unforseen occurences may happen even to the best and most experienced drivers.
9. No one is infallible!
10. prosecution is probable if it goes wrong.
11. The public expect a fast response to what they perceive to be emergencies. Depending on the degree of the emergency assessed by the attending officer will reflect the amount of performance he uses to get to the incident. No Police officer I know wants to end the shift in an ambulance or on a mortuary slab.
12. Whether you agree or not, unless you have taken a full Police advanced course which will not be available to you unless you have passed the standard course with good marks showing potential for further training, you cannot understand what is involved or how the system operates. Criticism is all too easy from armchair generals.
13. Lots of people don't like the Police, That is apparent from many of the posts on this site Any opportunity that someone gets to have a 'pop' is gratefully taken, much of which is done as laymen.
14. No one joins the Police to be liked. That was not my principle reason for joining and I do not care if I am liked or not. Nor do most other Police officers. Many people do not like me. I can live with that and myself. Hopefully those that hate me most are those in which I have a significant affect on their lives. Most police are of the same opinion.
15. Laws are there for the guidance of everyone sonthat the society we live in runs as smoothly as possible with the least damage to people and their property.
Most burglars and drug dealers do not like the laws on theft and drugs either, just as those who drive cars do not like laws on speed.
If those that do not like a particular law and chose to ignore it because it suits them should expect and accept the problem as an occupational hazard.
The court system is there for those who have been captured to have their opportunity to rebut the facts placed before it.
I accept that is not easy to burgle or drug abuse/deal by mistake and these are concious decisions and subject of criminal intent.
To inadvertently take a life or seriously injure someone as a result of just a mistake in a ton of metal is no less serious and the law reflects that.
I say this again and again. If you do not want to be caught for speeding, then do not do it in areas where you are likely to get caught. There are plenty of places that you can do so with minimal risk to anyone else. Failing that, pay the money and take it on a track.
The Police have lawful excuse to break speed limits for policing purposes. You can whinge and moan as much as you like but this has been decided by Parliament and for the benefit of the people that the Police serve.
Public servants are looked down on by many as no hopers and losers on an easy street package paid for by tax payers.
Public sector workers pay tax too you know and lots of it. They do not have the benefit of tax allowances on their business expenses and any other thing they can fiddle from the exchequer.
Public sector workers train hard to try to deliver the sort of service at grass root level that should be expected by those that need them.
There are free loaders, the sick, lame and lazy in every job and occupation, not just Public Sector occupations.
Many Police officers do the job because it is rewarding work, not in a financial way but gratifying when it works well. It is full of frustration and set backs but necessary and fulfilling work.
It is about time that some of those who post on this site started to think outside the very small box they live in!
Rant over.
By the way, This thread has seen the departure of Gemmini from the site. He has mailed me to explain why.
madcop said:
By the way, This thread has seen the departure of Gemmini from the site. He has mailed me to explain why.
That was his choice. No-one made a personal pop at him, he just didnt like what was being written in a forum filled with people of many different viewpoints.
A good analogy I suppose is that if one is offended by what is on TV then DONT WATCH IT!!! Change channel and look at somthing else! Seems like a bit of an over-reaction to throw the TV away! :|
Forums are freedom of speech. People are allowed their views and as long as it is not directed personally and viciously. I make no apologies for posting my point of view about things.
>> Edited by soulpatch on Thursday 5th June 19:31
Seconded(teds view). Those folks that dont want to learn from you guys experiences wont bother taking on board any of what you say.
I DO want to hear the other side, and i can honestly say that my perceptions of police drivers has been somewhat altered, for the better, by yourself M.C. and also the other BIB contributors.
>> Edited by deltaf on Thursday 5th June 19:30
>> Edited by deltaf on Thursday 5th June 19:31
I DO want to hear the other side, and i can honestly say that my perceptions of police drivers has been somewhat altered, for the better, by yourself M.C. and also the other BIB contributors.
>> Edited by deltaf on Thursday 5th June 19:30
>> Edited by deltaf on Thursday 5th June 19:31
I always find it interesting to watch a thread like this develop with every ones views, and for them all to be completely levelled when madcop replies. I dont know how he manages to keep patience with some of the rubbish here, but his posts always seem to be very considered and backed up with fact, and look at the wider picture. Keep it up MC 
Part of the reason that Gemini has decided to leave is that he is tired of the sort of comments that are aimed at serving officers over an over again,
"We hate the Police"
"How can they get away with it?"
"Disgraceful behaviour from the Police"
"Disgraceful driving from the Police"
"Is not fair, one rule for them, one for the rest"
I have to say that there does appear to be a constant repetoir of such comments and threads.
The Police do deserve criticism and rightly so as does any public service. That is how we try to resolve the problems and get it right. We are very critical of our own performance without being constantly reminded of it. Most operations and incidents are de-briefed to see if we did it right or could have done it better. Training is constantly reviewed and updated to cater for the changes in law and procedure which is driven by the people that the Police serve.
Would you rather a Police force and I mean force run on continental Europe type Policing standards?
Military based with gun toting meglamaniacs watching your every move?
Again I say that the Police do not make the rules. This is done in Parliament by the people that we elect to represent our views. They do not always have this at heart when they make decisions as you are all well aware. Some are made on personal conscience matters regardless of the majority view of the constituents they serve.
The majority of the population do not want speeding vehicles in the location of their houses, schools and busineses. They mean NIMBY, but are willing to take the risks in someone elses. That is why there is such a radical thrust to reduce speeds generally.
The bonus in the thrust to reduce speed is a large amount of cash generated to the treasury.
Personally, I am shafted by the treasury and other Govt agencies that interfere with my life. I point blank refuse to allow them to take anymore from me so I do not exceed the limits which are posted unless I am exempt from doing so.
Motoring offences are generally situations in your own hands. If you concentrate on what you are doing and where you are, then you need not fall foul of penalty. If you must take a risk, then do so where you are likley to avoid detection. That would not be in someone elses back yard, or your own.
Look in your local papers. See how many articles cover local residents calling for speed reduction methods and Police attention to deal with the problems. When the solutions arrive, those that are caught are just as vociferous with their objections as they are with their support for the measures in the first place
You cannot have your cake and eat it!
"We hate the Police"
"How can they get away with it?"
"Disgraceful behaviour from the Police"
"Disgraceful driving from the Police"
"Is not fair, one rule for them, one for the rest"
I have to say that there does appear to be a constant repetoir of such comments and threads.
The Police do deserve criticism and rightly so as does any public service. That is how we try to resolve the problems and get it right. We are very critical of our own performance without being constantly reminded of it. Most operations and incidents are de-briefed to see if we did it right or could have done it better. Training is constantly reviewed and updated to cater for the changes in law and procedure which is driven by the people that the Police serve.
Would you rather a Police force and I mean force run on continental Europe type Policing standards?
Military based with gun toting meglamaniacs watching your every move?
Again I say that the Police do not make the rules. This is done in Parliament by the people that we elect to represent our views. They do not always have this at heart when they make decisions as you are all well aware. Some are made on personal conscience matters regardless of the majority view of the constituents they serve.
The majority of the population do not want speeding vehicles in the location of their houses, schools and busineses. They mean NIMBY, but are willing to take the risks in someone elses. That is why there is such a radical thrust to reduce speeds generally.
The bonus in the thrust to reduce speed is a large amount of cash generated to the treasury.
Personally, I am shafted by the treasury and other Govt agencies that interfere with my life. I point blank refuse to allow them to take anymore from me so I do not exceed the limits which are posted unless I am exempt from doing so.
Motoring offences are generally situations in your own hands. If you concentrate on what you are doing and where you are, then you need not fall foul of penalty. If you must take a risk, then do so where you are likley to avoid detection. That would not be in someone elses back yard, or your own.
Look in your local papers. See how many articles cover local residents calling for speed reduction methods and Police attention to deal with the problems. When the solutions arrive, those that are caught are just as vociferous with their objections as they are with their support for the measures in the first place
You cannot have your cake and eat it!
As is the case with yourself MC, as it is with Geminii, we all WANT you guys, the ones that give feedback to be here.
The BIB's that actually do come on here to correct our assumptions and misconceptions are the ones i have the most respect for, i think i can say i speak for others here when i say that.
I for one dont "hate" the police, but i dont like what theyre being forced to do to otherwise law abiding citizens.
Anyway, as i said, Max respect sirs.
The BIB's that actually do come on here to correct our assumptions and misconceptions are the ones i have the most respect for, i think i can say i speak for others here when i say that.
I for one dont "hate" the police, but i dont like what theyre being forced to do to otherwise law abiding citizens.
Anyway, as i said, Max respect sirs.
Wow, this thread is getting a bit heavy...
Qudos to BtB and Madcop for telling it how it is. Also I can't believe Gemini is leaving over this one, perhaps he's had a few
like me and will come back tomorrow? 
Otherwise cheers G hopefully will see you at some TVRCC events...
But in all seriousness:
1) we have no idea what else this guy was doing at 140MPH, or what previous he had.
2) If it was a first timer then presumably his 3 months will get suspended/commuted to community service or whatever, since there is no room at HMPS. Similar to the burglers we are all complaining about? Whatever we may think of the law (and that's what it is), you know the risk you are taking if you chose to break it.
Form a lurkers point of view, MC, Gemini and BtB's opinons are very well appreciated on this subject, cheers guys!
ps (edited) just read the other thread (OK so I'm slow) and can see what Gemini means. All I can say is that your views are appreciated by the silent majority.
>> Edited by MickC on Thursday 5th June 23:18
Qudos to BtB and Madcop for telling it how it is. Also I can't believe Gemini is leaving over this one, perhaps he's had a few
like me and will come back tomorrow? Otherwise cheers G hopefully will see you at some TVRCC events...
But in all seriousness:
1) we have no idea what else this guy was doing at 140MPH, or what previous he had.
2) If it was a first timer then presumably his 3 months will get suspended/commuted to community service or whatever, since there is no room at HMPS. Similar to the burglers we are all complaining about? Whatever we may think of the law (and that's what it is), you know the risk you are taking if you chose to break it.
Form a lurkers point of view, MC, Gemini and BtB's opinons are very well appreciated on this subject, cheers guys!
ps (edited) just read the other thread (OK so I'm slow) and can see what Gemini means. All I can say is that your views are appreciated by the silent majority.
>> Edited by MickC on Thursday 5th June 23:18
wow, quite a few responses! thanks a lot guys. May I now ask how many of you out there have been inside a vehicle travelling at 150mph plus? I, like the rest of you understand that 150mph is breaking the law, and if caught travelling at that or a similar speed you should be prosecuted, but I think the majority of people will feel that the system of prosecution needs some common sense added to it. As mentioned earlier, surely doing 40 or 50 in a 30 zone near a school during the afternoon is far more dangerous than travelling at 150mph on the M25 at 3am in good conditions and no other vehicle in sight? So should the punishment be so stern? I feel strongly that motorway speed limits should be altered, maybe even increasing the limit after a certain time? Making criminals of joe public is becoming far to easy. I found it very amusing that travelling from Brentwood to lakeside around the M25 on the inside lane doing exactly 70mph I was an obstruction. I was amazed to find that nobody was prepared to sit behind me doing 70mph, everyone had to overtake, and I am not just talking about boy racers, i mean everybody including a lady that looked all of 80!! in her Micra. This meant that everybody in the overtaking lane was travelling at well over 100mph, if not 120mph, are these people criminals? I think not.
InEssex said: wow, quite a few responses! thanks a lot guys. May I now ask how many of you out there have been inside a vehicle travelling at 150mph plus? I, like the rest of you understand that 150mph is breaking the law, and if caught travelling at that or a similar speed you should be prosecuted, but I think the majority of people will feel that the system of prosecution needs some common sense added to it. As mentioned earlier, surely doing 40 or 50 in a 30 zone near a school during the afternoon is far more dangerous than travelling at 150mph on the M25 at 3am in good conditions and no other vehicle in sight? So should the punishment be so stern? I feel strongly that motorway speed limits should be altered, maybe even increasing the limit after a certain time? Making criminals of joe public is becoming far to easy. I found it very amusing that travelling from Brentwood to lakeside around the M25 on the inside lane doing exactly 70mph I was an obstruction. I was amazed to find that nobody was prepared to sit behind me doing 70mph, everyone had to overtake, and I am not just talking about boy racers, i mean everybody including a lady that looked all of 80!! in her Micra. This meant that everybody in the overtaking lane was travelling at well over 100mph, if not 120mph, are these people criminals? I think not.
Blimey. What time of the day was this?
70mph and the slowest thing on the M25. It can't have been between 0500 and 2300
Funny you should post that.
madcop said:Blimey. What time of the day was this?
70mph and the slowest thing on the M25. It can't have been between 0500 and 2300
Yesterday
J20 -> J12
M25
"40" on the VSLS
About 1 car per 200 yards per lane (i.e. fcuk all traffic)
SM TIS saying "Congestion afer next junction"
After 5 of these we all started playing 'lets play do we know where the speed camera's are" (RoadA gave me the 'edge')
I though about ringing someone to tell them the system was bust - but who do I ring. 999/111 would be silly for a non-critical call.
08457 50 40 30 gave no reply after 55 rings (yes - I counted them - well my 'smart' mobile did...)
So - what you do you do??????
J
madcop said: Part of the reason that Gemini has decided to leave is that he is tired of the sort of comments that are aimed at serving officers over an over again,
"We hate the Police"
"How can they get away with it?"
"Disgraceful behaviour from the Police"
"Disgraceful driving from the Police"
"Is not fair, one rule for them, one for the rest"
I have to say that there does appear to be a constant repetoir of such comments and threads.
The Police do deserve criticism and rightly so as does any public service. That is how we try to resolve the problems and get it right. We are very critical of our own performance without being constantly reminded of it. Most operations and incidents are de-briefed to see if we did it right or could have done it better. Training is constantly reviewed and updated to cater for the changes in law and procedure which is driven by the people that the Police serve.
Would you rather a Police force and I mean force run on continental Europe type Policing standards?
Military based with gun toting meglamaniacs watching your every move?
Again I say that the Police do not make the rules. This is done in Parliament by the people that we elect to represent our views. They do not always have this at heart when they make decisions as you are all well aware. Some are made on personal conscience matters regardless of the majority view of the constituents they serve.
The majority of the population do not want speeding vehicles in the location of their houses, schools and busineses. They mean NIMBY, but are willing to take the risks in someone elses. That is why there is such a radical thrust to reduce speeds generally.
The bonus in the thrust to reduce speed is a large amount of cash generated to the treasury.
Personally, I am shafted by the treasury and other Govt agencies that interfere with my life. I point blank refuse to allow them to take anymore from me so I do not exceed the limits which are posted unless I am exempt from doing so.
Motoring offences are generally situations in your own hands. If you concentrate on what you are doing and where you are, then you need not fall foul of penalty. If you must take a risk, then do so where you are likley to avoid detection. That would not be in someone elses back yard, or your own.
Look in your local papers. See how many articles cover local residents calling for speed reduction methods and Police attention to deal with the problems. When the solutions arrive, those that are caught are just as vociferous with their objections as they are with their support for the measures in the first place
You cannot have your cake and eat it!
Long quote - simple reply.
The fact that there are HMG's BIB's on here that add so much value keeps my faith in the Police overall.
I'm sure there are "gooduns" and "baduns" - but overall I've personaly gained so much from our BiB's on here that their contribution is somewhat "special".
If Gemini really has left that is very sad, and I, as a regular poster feel upset that the minority has effected that.
I'd like to yet again thank our BiB's for being here and putting up with our abuse, jovial comments and direct digs - personally I wouldn't - but the fact that they keep around, to me, shows the simple fact that the "personal" face of HM's enforcement agency is in the main correct.
Remember - don't shoot the messenger - shoot the architect....
J
madcop, gemini, the other sweeney....I always read your posts with interest. I really do not know how you have the patience or inclination to do it. I must say I view speeding as a weighing up of the risks - I'm late, proportionately, how far does the boot have to go down? (usually all the way in the fiat 
) it's a calculated risk. If I'm not late, I'll go along with the traffic flow (75-90) and if I want to cain, I'll go far out into the sticks and do it where I judge the risk of affecting others to be low.
anyway, keep it up
point of order: when caining, I rarely if ever get more than 10-15% over 60 anyway (in the mini)...must be my love of the hairpin twisties
) it's a calculated risk. If I'm not late, I'll go along with the traffic flow (75-90) and if I want to cain, I'll go far out into the sticks and do it where I judge the risk of affecting others to be low. anyway, keep it up
point of order: when caining, I rarely if ever get more than 10-15% over 60 anyway (in the mini)...must be my love of the hairpin twisties
Well I have to add: the views of most of the BiB on this site are refreshingly informative, and always read with interest. And nearly always appreciated! forums like this are a good opportunity for both "sides" to exchange views, and neither should be offended by what the other says. And in the end, we're all human - so "sides" don't really come into it. Stick around guys, you might learn some stuff from "us", and we are certainly learning from you.
Respect.
C
Respect.
C
chrisgr31 said:
loaf said:
because any Plod that drives that fast on four wheels has taken and passed the Police Advanced Driving Certificate, drives to the System of Car Control, and therefore stands a bl00dy good chance of being safer at 140mph that most numpties (who've never heard of SoCC - observation? Wossat?) are at 40mph. Add to that the fact that Plod would never travel that fast unless at least one life was already in danger.
Does that mean that a driver who has had additional training and up to the same level could also have a good excuse?
Thought not, however this is the problem with current speed enforcement in this coutry. The mantra is speed kills with no discretion for the particular circumstances.
In the meantime due to the reduction in traffic police the numpties can drive as badly as they like as long as they stay within the speed limit!
I used to know a test driver from Fords, he had police training, IAM training etc. I once asked him if his training could be used as an excuse for speeding. His reply was that there is NO excuse if he was caught and quoted all his qualifications, the police would say. Well you should know better then.
This will be my last post in this thread as it seems it's all going a bit pete tong...
My original and subsequent posts were intended to point out that, while 140mph can in no way be considered 'safe', advanced police drivers are far more likely not to have sh!t happen at that speed due to their advanced awareness & training.
Yes, their is one rule for emergency drivers and one rule for the rest of us. That's as it should be. Getting to a meeting late or not getting home in time to see the match are not excuses to break the speed limit. Getting to a heart attack or trauma victim, or the scene of a crime where someone is in danger/there's a good chanmce of catching the scum that committed it, or getting to a fireground early enough to save lives and/or property are all excellent excuses to break the speed limit WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE AND THOSE WHO DO SO ARE TRAINED TO DO SO and more importantly, UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS IF THINGS GO WRONG probably more than anyone else.
My original and subsequent posts were intended to point out that, while 140mph can in no way be considered 'safe', advanced police drivers are far more likely not to have sh!t happen at that speed due to their advanced awareness & training.
Yes, their is one rule for emergency drivers and one rule for the rest of us. That's as it should be. Getting to a meeting late or not getting home in time to see the match are not excuses to break the speed limit. Getting to a heart attack or trauma victim, or the scene of a crime where someone is in danger/there's a good chanmce of catching the scum that committed it, or getting to a fireground early enough to save lives and/or property are all excellent excuses to break the speed limit WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE AND THOSE WHO DO SO ARE TRAINED TO DO SO and more importantly, UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS IF THINGS GO WRONG probably more than anyone else.
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