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IainT

9,236 posts

125 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
Tampon said:
Your judgement on me would be on you feeling defensive on me pulling you up, again probably not exactly a sound basis to start from but don't let that stop you, I don't mind
rofl

Wait a minute, you're taking yourself seriously aren't you? eek


Tampon

3,676 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
IainT said:
rofl

Wait a minute, you're taking yourself seriously aren't you? eek
hehe
A little bit biggrin

Tampon

3,676 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
TVRWannabee said:
sleep
I know I know I will take my share of the snoozey smilie buttttttttttttttttttt.


Goodwin

165 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
Wait a minute. I can see know that I was wrong - the piss taking has made me see the error of my ways. I was not hunted I was just being followed by some nice doggies who wanted to catch up with me play fetch. I clearly misinterpreted the situation and their body language because I was wrong: dogs are not dangerous, no dog is dangerous and no dog has ever harmed a child, ever. Really I cant understand why they are not used in nursaries and instead of babysitters.

On the subject of the police again I was totally wrong. The police do a perfect job, they are not just human but all of them are superhuman and are entirely capable of serving the law totally impassionately. They make no prejudgement based on race, sex apparent wealth or their own personal circumstances at the time. Every crime is investigated to the full extent of the evidencial trail. Their application of the law is flawless and indiscriminate in every way, every time. I should give them my full, unconditional respect and should never question their motives or actions, either publically or privately.

My beliefs that the world is other than this is obviously some form of pyschosis and my memories of experience supporting this are obviously delusions dreamt up to reinforce my twisted warped world view when I beleive the world is imperfect.

Thank god for the medicinal piss taking to drag me from my illness and help me realise that the world is a lovely place where nothing bad ever happens.


Tampon

3,676 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
Goodwin said:
Wait a minute. I can see know that I was wrong - the piss taking has made me see the error of my ways. I was not hunted I was just being followed by some nice doggies who wanted to catch up with me play fetch. I clearly misinterpreted the situation and their body language because I was wrong: dogs are not dangerous, no dog is dangerous and no dog has ever harmed a child, ever. Really I cant understand why they are not used in nursaries and instead of babysitters.

On the subject of the police again I was totally wrong. The police do a perfect job, they are not just human but all of them are superhuman and are entirely capable of serving the law totally impassionately. They make no prejudgement based on race, sex apparent wealth or their own personal circumstances at the time. Every crime is investigated to the full extent of the evidencial trail. Their application of the law is flawless and indiscriminate in every way, every time. I should give them my full, unconditional respect and should never question their motives or actions, either publically or privately.

My beliefs that the world is other than this is obviously some form of pyschosis and my memories of experience supporting this are obviously delusions dreamt up to reinforce my twisted warped world view when I beleive the world is imperfect.

Thank god for the medicinal piss taking to drag me from my illness and help me realise that the world is a lovely place where nothing bad ever happens.
New line of defense, one extreme to the other.

I don;t care if you carry on saying "your", way out there, opinions, I will take the piss if you do it publicly though, I have no want or desire to change you line of thinking, I just wanted to mock it as it was extreme. People do that here when others speak dribble. People should be told when they talk rubbish, people tell me when I do, sometimes I take it on board sometimes I don't. I try not to get too het up about it and work my self into a corner when I have been a bit pratish.

Wanting Ashes to Ashes as a model for modern policing ? forget that little nugget ? did you get arrested ? police officers decide what to police based on their own personal feelings and convince, some mythical situation where 12 officers whilst being told of a serious assault decided to stay and catch a couple of speeders, all dogs are wild animals ? 4 year olds are dieing from one bite of a Labrador and if they don;t they die of brain damage when they hit the floor? wanting time back to when men where responsible for there actions ? you taking evidence to the police about a crime and they treated you like a criminal, lock you up, arrest you question you, fingerprints ?

Don't forget the juicy bits, touch selective when you get defensive.



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IainT

9,236 posts

125 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
Goodwin said:
Wait a minute. I can see know that I was wrong - the piss taking has made me see the error of my ways.
Alternatively put people, who are only interested in trolling you, on your virtual ignore list. Life's generally more pleasant then. Don't rise to the bait and sinking to his level will only leave you beaten by experience.

Tampon

3,676 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st June 2011 quote quote all
IainT said:
Alternatively put people, who are only interested in trolling you, on your virtual ignore list. Life's generally more pleasant then. Don't rise to the bait and sinking to his level will only leave you beaten by experience.
Yes. This.

broker1

5,649 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th November 2011 quote quote all
AJS- said:
As somoene who mostly seems to be on the bashing side of BiB arguments on here, it's really nothing personal. It's almost always the rules and the people who make them that are the problem, rather than the police.

What is frustrating though, is whenever anyone posts something criticising a bit of particularly bad policing, a particularly literal interpretation of the law or a new piece of oppressive and intrusive legislation then a few BiB's on here will leap in with the dull tortologies and truisms familiar to anyone who ever got a speeding ticket. "We don't make the rules" "the law is the law" and perhams worst of all "if you don't break the law you don't have to worry."

Firstly lots of people post on here when they've done something, often pretty silly, and been caught. They want to vent their spleen, get some sympathy or sometimes just clarify the law they have broken. To post these dull and obvious responses again is seen as smug if not down right antagonising.

Secondly, there's a huge section of public opinion, myself included, who think that Britain is turning into a really nasty, illiberal and very intolerant society. The police are on the front line of this and even though I'm sure many privately disagree with this direction they are bound to be criticised with great passion by those who have been on the receiving end and by those who actually care about issues of principle as regards civil liberty and freedom.

Finally there's the aspect that while all of us are asked to sacrifice freedoms for the sake of fighting crime, terrorism and so forth, it seems that when the police actually catch people committing the genuine crimes that nearly everyone agrees are wrong, the courts and the legal system behind them end up handing out punishments which seem trivial in comparisson to the punishments we as law abiding citizens receive for trivial offences. I'm sure most policemen would like to see tougher sentancing as much as I would, but you can't detach the police from the legal system behind them.

To my mind Britain is now at a kind of tipping point where the state is more of a cost than a benefit to the people who live there.

I'm not, and never have been a policeman, and never really given any serious thought to joining. However if I somehow did find myself now as a policeman and in a position where I was asked to man a speed trap or arrest someone for smoking in a pub or hunting with hounds, I would actually rather leave the police force and do something else.

So, if you are a policeman who genuinely cares about not just catching criminals but actually upholding the laws and principles that underpin a free society then don't be too surprised that people occasionally get angry with the police in general.

If however you are the sort of policeman who joined for the thrill of authority, and you expect nothing but praise from people who thank you for being punished and who believe that one vote in 40 million, once every five years, makes every rule unimpeachable and rigid enforcement of it something for which we should be grateful, then I'm sure you'll be able to take it on the chin until all of our IP addresses are registered and we get fixed penalties every time we commit the hate crime of criticising the police. After all, the future of Britain is yours.
What a brilliant post. Thank you for putting into words what I feel, but always get to angry and annoyed to convey in a civil manner.

mybrainhurts

78,204 posts

142 months

[news] 
Friday 18th November 2011 quote quote all
broker1 said:
What a brilliant post. Thank you for putting into words what I feel, but always get to angry and annoyed to convey in a civil manner.
I agree. We need to keep bumping it...smile

Apache

38,929 posts

171 months

[news] 
Friday 18th November 2011 quote quote all
mybrainhurts said:
broker1 said:
What a brilliant post. Thank you for putting into words what I feel, but always get to angry and annoyed to convey in a civil manner.
I agree. We need to keep bumping it...smile
consider it rebumped

broker1

5,649 posts

63 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd November 2011 quote quote all
Obviously I meant 'too' not 'to'.....



bump lol

Rovinghawk

6,429 posts

45 months

[news] 
Thursday 15th December 2011 quote quote all
broker1 said:
What a brilliant post. Thank you for putting into words what I feel, but always get to angry and annoyed to convey in a civil manner.
I concur totally.

RH

Apache

38,929 posts

171 months

[news] 
Wednesday 21st December 2011 quote quote all
AJS- said:
As somoene who mostly seems to be on the bashing side of BiB arguments on here, it's really nothing personal. It's almost always the rules and the people who make them that are the problem, rather than the police.

What is frustrating though, is whenever anyone posts something criticising a bit of particularly bad policing, a particularly literal interpretation of the law or a new piece of oppressive and intrusive legislation then a few BiB's on here will leap in with the dull tortologies and truisms familiar to anyone who ever got a speeding ticket. "We don't make the rules" "the law is the law" and perhams worst of all "if you don't break the law you don't have to worry."

Firstly lots of people post on here when they've done something, often pretty silly, and been caught. They want to vent their spleen, get some sympathy or sometimes just clarify the law they have broken. To post these dull and obvious responses again is seen as smug if not down right antagonising.

Secondly, there's a huge section of public opinion, myself included, who think that Britain is turning into a really nasty, illiberal and very intolerant society. The police are on the front line of this and even though I'm sure many privately disagree with this direction they are bound to be criticised with great passion by those who have been on the receiving end and by those who actually care about issues of principle as regards civil liberty and freedom.

Finally there's the aspect that while all of us are asked to sacrifice freedoms for the sake of fighting crime, terrorism and so forth, it seems that when the police actually catch people committing the genuine crimes that nearly everyone agrees are wrong, the courts and the legal system behind them end up handing out punishments which seem trivial in comparisson to the punishments we as law abiding citizens receive for trivial offences. I'm sure most policemen would like to see tougher sentancing as much as I would, but you can't detach the police from the legal system behind them.

To my mind Britain is now at a kind of tipping point where the state is more of a cost than a benefit to the people who live there.

I'm not, and never have been a policeman, and never really given any serious thought to joining. However if I somehow did find myself now as a policeman and in a position where I was asked to man a speed trap or arrest someone for smoking in a pub or hunting with hounds, I would actually rather leave the police force and do something else.

So, if you are a policeman who genuinely cares about not just catching criminals but actually upholding the laws and principles that underpin a free society then don't be too surprised that people occasionally get angry with the police in general.

If however you are the sort of policeman who joined for the thrill of authority, and you expect nothing but praise from people who thank you for being punished and who believe that one vote in 40 million, once every five years, makes every rule unimpeachable and rigid enforcement of it something for which we should be grateful, then I'm sure you'll be able to take it on the chin until all of our IP addresses are registered and we get fixed penalties every time we commit the hate crime of criticising the police. After all, the future of Britain is yours.
It would seem that some things are never going to change

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Forget having a social conscience, it'll get you arrested

davidball

405 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
I take issue with the OP's advice "If you have a particular complaint against a particular officer who has dealt with you, then complain through the correct channels – their direct supervisor, the Force’s complaints department or the Independent Police Complaints Commission." These may be the 'correct channels' as far as the police are concerned but history shows it is not so for the public. I have no faith in the Force's complaints procedures nor the IPCC (not much evidence of Independence there). How many deaths in custody have resulted in convictions of police officers? How can firing seven bullets into a innocent man's head at point blank range not be "Unlawful killing" and how can the officers who did it not be charged with murder?

RtdRacer

1,274 posts

88 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
davidball said:
I take issue with the OP's advice "If you have a particular complaint against a particular officer who has dealt with you, then complain through the correct channels – their direct supervisor, the Force’s complaints department or the Independent Police Complaints Commission." These may be the 'correct channels' as far as the police are concerned but history shows it is not so for the public. I have no faith in the Force's complaints procedures nor the IPCC (not much evidence of Independence there). How many deaths in custody have resulted in convictions of police officers? How can firing seven bullets into a innocent man's head at point blank range not be "Unlawful killing" and how can the officers who did it not be charged with murder?
Easily. If a police officer takes the decision to kill someone - for a lawful reason, like you thought he had a gun/nuclear device/voted Labour/whatever, then the safest way to ensure death, as opposed to thinking he's dead and then him popping up and shooting back/detonating the bomb/voting in a byelection/whatever is TO SHOOT HIM REPEATEDLY IN THE HEAD.

People got all hot under the collar about the number of shots. Bolleaux - if I had to shoot to kill, I would keep pressing the trigger until the gun clicked. Why do you think special forces go round the room and shoot prone combatants in the head - so there are no surprises in 10 seconds time.

The important bit is whether the decision to shoot was correct/lawful/whatever or not. How you killed him seems pretty irrelevant. It's just a bit detail for the tabloids to stir up faux-indignation with. "SEVEN bullets in OK Corral mass murder mayhem shootout by GUNCRAZY police" sells more papers than "Gunman shot".

davidball

405 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
You have not addressed any of the issues I raised and your language appears to try to justify grave miscarriages of Justice. Menezes was NOT a gunman. He was an unarmed man going about his lawful business who was shot to death by police officers who appear to have panicked because their cotrollers had lost track of the situation. The whole operation was a cockup from start to finish and the Police did eveything they could to squirm out of taking responsibility for it. The inquest was a disgrace and I doubt we will ever know what political pressure was brought to bear to prevent a finding of unlawful killing.

Munter

25,376 posts

128 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
davidball said:
You have not addressed any of the issues I raised and your language appears to try to justify grave miscarriages of Justice. Menezes was NOT a gunman. He was an unarmed man going about his lawful business who was shot to death by police officers who appear to have panicked because their cotrollers had lost track of the situation. The whole operation was a cockup from start to finish and the Police did eveything they could to squirm out of taking responsibility for it. The inquest was a disgrace and I doubt we will ever know what political pressure was brought to bear to prevent a finding of unlawful killing.
If you want people to tell you in intimate detail how you are wrong on this specific subject. Why not start a thread on it.

If you want to deliberately try and troll a thread/bate some of the bib. You might want to start a thread for that as well.

So far about the only justifiable reason to post on this thread is that you don't believe the official channels of complaint work. And frankly if that's true there's not much anybody can do about that here. And it's probably a thread on it's own.

davidball

405 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
I took issue with the OP over the phrase “the correct channels” for complaining and stated my view on it. I asked some questions about deaths in custody and why executing an innocent man was not an unlawful killing. There have been no answers.

If you think that asking awkward questions justifies your response “If you want to deliberately try and troll a thread/bate some of the bib” I wonder why you are so defensive.

XCP

12,255 posts

115 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
If you have no faith in senior officers, professional standards dept or the IPCC, what channels do you suggest?
The De Menezes shooting has been done to death on this forum several times by the way.

davidball

405 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
I think the best way is through a civil prosecution of the individual officer.

Thank you for the info about the Menezes case. I will run a search on it to see if the thread produced any answers to such questions as:

Why was the unlawful killing finding prohibited by the coroner?
Why were the findings of Stockwell 1 initially kept secret?
Why was no officer charged?
Are those officers still allowed to carry guns?




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