Bad Police Attitude (written by a policeman)

[MonkeyHanger]

Ranger 6 said:

MonkeyHanger said:

Ranger 6 said:

Don't forget Xenon/HID kits are illegal.

This does NOT involve a kit.

I know, you made that very clear in your original post, just clarifying 'cos it's not well known that the kits are illegal. Sad assumption on the one that ticketed you that it was a kit, which I guess is the whole point of your rant.

I have nothing to do with this case, you seem to have confused me with someone else

I was just making it crystal clear that, unlike the Chav HID kits that are available, the lights on the vRS WRC are indeed 100% legal & factory fitted

If it were me, i'd be banging on the door at Cannon Park (Cleveland RPU HQ) and demanded to see a senior officer for a full apology.

[fluffnik]

zac510 said:

Put it this way, in a couple of weeks you'll get the feel-good feeling of knowing you fought a fine and got off it

...then go after the bad cop.

I don't want to be paying for staff like that.

[fluffnik]

Battenburg Bob said:

Having the hassle and cost of going to court.

Surely it is Perverting the Course of Justice to accept a ticket when you are innocent.

[Battenburg Bob]

No!

[Frix]

fluffnik said:

Battenburg Bob said:

Having the hassle and cost of going to court.

Surely it is Perverting the Course of Justice to accept a ticket when you are innocent.

What makes you think that?

[-Z-]

Petemate said:

OK - what about this then. One of my relatives has an Evo 9 which is fitted with HID headlamps. It has NO levelling and NO headlight washers. This is how it came, brand new, from the dealer.
Answers, not necessarily on a postcard, please.
Pete

Have ALWAYS wondered about this. Most evos have HID as OEM fitment, none wish washers or levelling.

Can one of the knowledgable guys on here advise on how this is considered legal?

[Deva Link]

-Z- said:

Petemate said:

OK - what about this then. One of my relatives has an Evo 9 which is fitted with HID headlamps. It has NO levelling and NO headlight washers. This is how it came, brand new, from the dealer.
Answers, not necessarily on a postcard, please.
Pete

Have ALWAYS wondered about this. Most evos have HID as OEM fitment, none wish washers or levelling.

Can one of the knowledgable guys on here advise on how this is considered legal?

I assume it's because they used to come in on a limited type approval. The ones sold now through Mitsubishi dealers have leveling and washers.

[fluffnik]

Battenburg Bob said:

No!

Perhaps it should be...

[fluffnik]

Frix said:

fluffnik said:

Battenburg Bob said:

Having the hassle and cost of going to court.

Surely it is Perverting the Course of Justice to accept a ticket when you are innocent.

What makes you think that?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too.

The state should have some consistency in the way it runs the CJS, or it starts to look like an extortion racket...

[TPAC]

fluffnik said:

Frix said:

fluffnik said:

Battenburg Bob said:

Having the hassle and cost of going to court.

Surely it is Perverting the Course of Justice to accept a ticket when you are innocent.

What makes you think that?

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too.

The state should have some consistency in the way it runs the CJS, or it starts to look like an extortion racket...

explanation?

[fluffnik]

TPAC said:

[
explanation?

I consider the current implementation of Fixed Penalties to be perversion of justice.

The Fixed Penalties are pitched at a sufficiently low level that even a successful defence by the innocent may cost more than just rolling over.

Those issuing Fixed Penalties are IMO Perverting the Course of Justice.

Administrative convenience is not even a poor excuse for justice.

A just fixed penalty system would have to set a maximum tariff which cannot be exceeded whether the accused defend themselves, make a plea in mitigation or just cough up.

If a victimless and arbitrary offence is not worth due process it's probably not worth persecuting at all.

[TPAC]

fluffnik said:

TPAC said:

[
explanation?

I consider the current implementation of Fixed Penalties to be perversion of justice.

The Fixed Penalties are pitched at a sufficiently low level that even a successful defence by the innocent may cost more than just rolling over.

Those issuing Fixed Penalties are IMO Perverting the Course of Justice.

Administrative convenience is not even a poor excuse for justice.

A just fixed penalty system would have to set a maximum tariff which cannot be exceeded whether the accused defend themselves, make a plea in mitigation or just cough up.

If a victimless and arbitrary offence is not worth due process it's probably not worth persecuting at all.

I see what you mean now, thanks. That might be a very fair point.

[Mattt]

Brad130891 said:

ehhh what have you to say about this apparently this is supposed to crack down street racers........what are you going to do with that you can hardly box them in or do a pit minuver

Go away.

[Marf]

Brad130891 said:

ehhh what have you to say about this apparently this is supposed to crack down street racers........what are you going to do with that you can hardly box them in or do a pit minuver

That was a publicity stunt, now go and play in the traffic, theres a good boy.

[havoc]

TPAC said:

fluffnik said:

TPAC said:

explanation?

I consider the current implementation of Fixed Penalties to be perversion of justice.

The Fixed Penalties are pitched at a sufficiently low level that even a successful defence by the innocent may cost more than just rolling over.

Those issuing Fixed Penalties are IMO Perverting the Course of Justice.

Administrative convenience is not even a poor excuse for justice.

A just fixed penalty system would have to set a maximum tariff which cannot be exceeded whether the accused defend themselves, make a plea in mitigation or just cough up.

If a victimless and arbitrary offence is not worth due process it's probably not worth persecuting at all.

I see what you mean now, thanks. That might be a very fair point.

...which the government and judiciary will ignore completely as it's not in their interests to do anything else!

[Ranger 6]

MonkeyHanger said:

I have nothing to do with this case, you seem to have confused me with someone else

ooops!

Edited by Ranger 6 on Monday 11th August 12:11

[MonkeyHanger]

Ranger 6 said:

MonkeyHanger said:

I have nothing to do with this case, you seem to have confused me with someone else

ooops!

Edited by Ranger 6 on Monday 11th August 12:11

I do live in the same area though and by a strange co-incedence have fallen foul of the same Traffic Dept's incompetence which i managed to sort out by refusing to take no for an answer

[Gruppe1875]

Petemate said:

OK - what about this then. One of my relatives has an Evo 9 which is fitted with HID headlamps. It has NO levelling and NO headlight washers. This is how it came, brand new, from the dealer.
Answers, not necessarily on a postcard, please.
Pete

Distinct difference between HID and Xenons.

Xenons require self levelling and washing. HIDs do not.

[Pigeon]

Gruppe1875 said:

Petemate said:

OK - what about this then. One of my relatives has an Evo 9 which is fitted with HID headlamps. It has NO levelling and NO headlight washers. This is how it came, brand new, from the dealer.
Answers, not necessarily on a postcard, please.
Pete

Distinct difference between HID and Xenons.

Xenons require self levelling and washing. HIDs do not.

Wrong.

The term "xenons" should not be used in description of headlamp bulb types because it is wretchedly ambiguous and serves only to confuse.

The inert gas xenon is used both in certain types of high-intensity incandescent bulb to slow the rate of tungsten loss from the filament, and as a major component of the discharge medium in HID bulbs. Some people use the slang "xenons" to refer to one of these, some to the other, some to both, and some people are not aware of or do not understand the difference. The term should therefore be avoided as it serves only to confuse.

HID - high intensity discharge - headlamps require levelling and washing equipment.

Xenon-filled incandescent bulbs do not - they are "ordinary headlamps". They may however fall foul of the law through excessive power, as the xenon filling is generally used to allow the bulb to be made with a higher power output than normal without compromising its life.

I don't know the answer wrt the Evo, perhaps it slips through a hole due to limited production or something.

[AndrewTait]

Pigeon said:

Gruppe1875 said:

Petemate said:

OK - what about this then. One of my relatives has an Evo 9 which is fitted with HID headlamps. It has NO levelling and NO headlight washers. This is how it came, brand new, from the dealer.
Answers, not necessarily on a postcard, please.
Pete

Distinct difference between HID and Xenons.

Xenons require self levelling and washing. HIDs do not.

Wrong.

The term "xenons" should not be used in description of headlamp bulb types because it is wretchedly ambiguous and serves only to confuse.

The inert gas xenon is used both in certain types of high-intensity incandescent bulb to slow the rate of tungsten loss from the filament, and as a major component of the discharge medium in HID bulbs. Some people use the slang "xenons" to refer to one of these, some to the other, some to both, and some people are not aware of or do not understand the difference. The term should therefore be avoided as it serves only to confuse.

HID - high intensity discharge - headlamps require levelling and washing equipment.

Xenon-filled incandescent bulbs do not - they are "ordinary headlamps". They may however fall foul of the law through excessive power, as the xenon filling is generally used to allow the bulb to be made with a higher power output than normal without compromising its life.

I don't know the answer wrt the Evo, perhaps it slips through a hole due to limited production or something.

There are basically 3 kinds of headlamp in common use today - Halogen reflector, Halogen Projector and High Intensity Discharge (HID). All 3 kinds can use Xenon gas in the manufacture of the bulbs, and as such the above quote is correct.

The reflector kind are your traditional headlamp style, with a large mirrored surface, and a bulb located somewhere close to the centre. The pattern of reflection is made either by the shape and design of the mirror, or (not as common these days) through the engravings made on the lens of headlamp unit.

Projector lamps from a distance can look like HID units, in that they do not need a reflector, and have a very concentrated emmission of light. The light pattern for this kind of lamp is made by the position of the unit. I am unsure as to the requirement for self levelling on these lamps, but suspect that it is not necessary, as the brightness of the bulb is no more than a standard halogen unit, as it uses the same type of bulb.

HID's in common with the Projector lamps, need no reflective surface behind the bulb, and as such the beam mpattern is dictated by the angle of the bulb. These bulbs being of a different style of emmission, gas heating, to produce light, rather than filament heating, and are very bright as a result of it being a chemical reaction, and potentially of a danger to on coming vehilce drivers. It is for this reason, they must be fitted (when OE) with self levelling units. The only reason why HID units require washers, is due to the heat created in the heating of the gas to produce light, which can cause dirt to get burned into the lenses of the headlamps. It is also for this reason, that many kits are illegal, as the heat produced will cause distortion to lenses which are not designed to take HID bulbs.

As a sideline to this story, the standard Octavia vRS's used by some police forces have Halogen reflector headlamps, and projector fog lamps built into the same unit, as per many higher spec, non HID equipped Octavias.

Edited by AndrewTait on Wednesday 13th August 16:08