Bad Police Attitude (written by a policeman)
Discussion
Ranger 6 said:
Just to help here is the DFT fact sheet - http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadla...
The crucial part is;
"In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated"
So anything e-marked such as a new car will be fine - kits won't.
Just because the DFT has an opinion on something it does not make it law. Show me a case where a higher court has agreed with this view, THEN I will accept their argument.The crucial part is;
"In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated"
So anything e-marked such as a new car will be fine - kits won't.
Ranger 6 said:
Just to help here is the DFT fact sheet - http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadla...
The crucial part is;
"In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated"
So anything e-marked such as a new car will be fine - kits won't.
But when you say "kits" - kits can include the entire unit, levelling and washing system, which reading that bit above would then make it comply? Rather than saying kits are illegal, surely it should be "sticking an HID bulb in your existing unit is illegal".The crucial part is;
"In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated"
So anything e-marked such as a new car will be fine - kits won't.
As to the OP, I used to get this sort of treatment all the time with my modified cars from a single officer, who thought being trained how to drive fast meant he knew every component of every vehicle inside out. Unfortunately proving him wrong once just singled me out for constant hassle. Fortunately not only would the local garages back me up but the other officers at the station knew he was a complete twunt as well. Still not sure why he was allowed to remain a traffic cop.
Davi said:
But when you say "kits" - kits can include the entire unit, levelling and washing system, which reading that bit above would then make it comply?....
Really? which kits? The ones I've seen have bulbs, ballasts etc, but no washing or leveling systems? I'd be interested to see those.Davi said:
Rather than saying kits are illegal, surely it should be "sticking an HID bulb in your existing unit is illegal"....
That's what it does say, having never seen a kit with washing or leveling that's how I phrased it -DfT Factsheet said:
"In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated"
Ranger 6 said:
Davi said:
But when you say "kits" - kits can include the entire unit, levelling and washing system, which reading that bit above would then make it comply?....
Really? which kits? The ones I've seen have bulbs, ballasts etc, but no washing or leveling systems? I'd be interested to see those.Not disagreeing with you in any way, just questioning the broadness of your original statement (rather poorly admittedly
)
AndrewTait said:
Pigeon said:
The term "xenons" should not be used in description of headlamp bulb types because it is wretchedly ambiguous and serves only to confuse.
The inert gas xenon is used both in certain types of high-intensity incandescent bulb to slow the rate of tungsten loss from the filament, and as a major component of the discharge medium in HID bulbs. Some people use the slang "xenons" to refer to one of these, some to the other, some to both, and some people are not aware of or do not understand the difference. The term should therefore be avoided as it serves only to confuse.
HID - high intensity discharge - headlamps require levelling and washing equipment.
Xenon-filled incandescent bulbs do not - they are "ordinary headlamps". They may however fall foul of the law through excessive power, as the xenon filling is generally used to allow the bulb to be made with a higher power output than normal without compromising its life.
I don't know the answer wrt the Evo, perhaps it slips through a hole due to limited production or something.
There are basically 3 kinds of headlamp in common use today - Halogen reflector, Halogen Projector and High Intensity Discharge (HID). All 3 kinds can use Xenon gas in the manufacture of the bulbs, and as such the above quote is correct. The inert gas xenon is used both in certain types of high-intensity incandescent bulb to slow the rate of tungsten loss from the filament, and as a major component of the discharge medium in HID bulbs. Some people use the slang "xenons" to refer to one of these, some to the other, some to both, and some people are not aware of or do not understand the difference. The term should therefore be avoided as it serves only to confuse.
HID - high intensity discharge - headlamps require levelling and washing equipment.
Xenon-filled incandescent bulbs do not - they are "ordinary headlamps". They may however fall foul of the law through excessive power, as the xenon filling is generally used to allow the bulb to be made with a higher power output than normal without compromising its life.
I don't know the answer wrt the Evo, perhaps it slips through a hole due to limited production or something.
The reflector kind are your traditional headlamp style, with a large mirrored surface, and a bulb located somewhere close to the centre. The pattern of reflection is made either by the shape and design of the mirror, or (not as common these days) through the engravings made on the lens of headlamp unit.
Projector lamps from a distance can look like HID units, in that they do not need a reflector, and have a very concentrated emmission of light. The light pattern for this kind of lamp is made by the position of the unit. I am unsure as to the requirement for self levelling on these lamps, but suspect that it is not necessary, as the brightness of the bulb is no more than a standard halogen unit, as it uses the same type of bulb.
The use of projector optics does not result in a requirement for levelling gear to be fitted.
AndrewTait said:
HID's in common with the Projector lamps, need no reflective surface behind the bulb, and as such the beam mpattern is dictated by the angle of the bulb.
This is not accurate. Both HIDs and filament bulbs require some kind of optical system to generate the beam. The two kinds of optical system in common use are, as noted, projector and reflector. Either type can be used with either type of bulb. It is true that most HID headlamps use projector optics but reflector HID headlamps do exist, for example on some Volvos.AndrewTait said:
These bulbs being of a different style of emmission, gas heating, to produce light, rather than filament heating, and are very bright as a result of it being a chemical reaction, and potentially of a danger to on coming vehilce drivers. It is for this reason, they must be fitted (when OE) with self levelling units.
Again, not quite accurate. HIDs produce light from a gas discharge - hence "high intensity discharge" ("low intensity discharge" lamps include fluorescent tubes). The light is produced not by heating the gas and not by a chemical reaction but by excitation of the electrons of the gas atoms to a higher energy state by the electric current; they then emit light as they relax back to normal.This process is more efficient at generating light than heating a filament, and so the bulbs can produce a greater light output than a filament bulb while consuming less power. They are also longer lasting as there is no filament to wear out.
AndrewTait said:
The only reason why HID units require washers, is due to the heat created in the heating of the gas to produce light, which can cause dirt to get burned into the lenses of the headlamps. It is also for this reason, that many kits are illegal, as the heat produced will cause distortion to lenses which are not designed to take HID bulbs.
HIDs produce less heat than standard filament bulbs. The common automotive HID bulb consumes 35W as opposed to 55/60W for a standard halogen bulb (dip/main), and converts a higher percentage of the energy into light. The requirement for washers is because the major source of dazzle from oncoming headlamps is off-axis scatter from the surface of the lens, which is greatly exacerbated when the lens is dirty. The greater light output from an HID lamp increases the intensity of the scatter and so washers are required in the vain hope that people will clean their headlamps often enough to mitigate the problem.Kits are illegal because UK law has not kept up with technology and approved the use of HIDs so they are not allowed except where there is an override from EU type approval. There is no risk of damage to optics designed for filament bulbs if they are used with HIDs.
Another point...
Self levelers are actually not a 100% requirement, if the manufacturer can demonstrate that the headlight alighment does not fall outside of the limits with the car loaded anywhere between it's kerb and max gross weight, then they are not required.
hence there are cars about without self-levelers and HID's, but they tend to be stripped out stuff or cars with only 2 seats and stiff suspension.
Self levelers are actually not a 100% requirement, if the manufacturer can demonstrate that the headlight alighment does not fall outside of the limits with the car loaded anywhere between it's kerb and max gross weight, then they are not required.
hence there are cars about without self-levelers and HID's, but they tend to be stripped out stuff or cars with only 2 seats and stiff suspension.
Sad to say. The Police have a problem. I cannot permit myself to put what I think in the post. But I have met many out of town officers that are concerned at policing today,. Be it Traffic or neighbourhood Policing. 99 percent of our Police Officers are honest hard working men and women, But we have the few that bring the job into desrepute. It is time that the good got rid of the bad. Where I live in North Sheffield corruption is rife. Upset a Policeman and you had better not drive. You are flagged. I have a friend that has been in the force for many years. He is taking early retirement because of the lack of moral, The disintegration of the best police force in the world, A force being taken over by bad officers far too young and inexperienced. The Force has changed for the worse.
Rodgers said:
Sad to say. The Police have a problem. I cannot permit myself to put what I think in the post. But I have met many out of town officers that are concerned at policing today,. Be it Traffic or neighbourhood Policing. 99 percent of our Police Officers are honest hard working men and women, But we have the few that bring the job into desrepute. It is time that the good got rid of the bad. Where I live in North Sheffield corruption is rife. Upset a Policeman and you had better not drive. You are flagged. I have a friend that has been in the force for many years. He is taking early retirement because of the lack of moral, The disintegration of the best police force in the world, A force being taken over by bad officers far too young and inexperienced. The Force has changed for the worse.
New officers are far more less likely to be corrupt than the old officers. All officers have to start somewhere and were new once.
Red Devil said:
Maybe so, but many of them appear to lack common sense and judgement.
Something that tends to come with age and experience.
I can only assume that the gents following me today when I was out on my Yamaha R6 had both 'common sense' and 'judgement'...the 'bike has a small numberplate and they followed me along a twisty B road, along which I rode sensibly and properly dressed (full leathers). I may have hit over 60 on the NSL road quite a number of times (albeit not by much) and they could have easily gone for the 'pull' had they wished...I doff my cap to the PCs of Warwickshire/Oxfordshire on the B-road to Banbury in the Nissan pickup truck at about 0830 today. Yes you could have, but you didn't. I thank you!Something that tends to come with age and experience.
For the record, the vRS WRC does indeed have different lights to the regular VRS, and I can't wait to see how this turns out...
Hello NeelyP,
I'm an dormant Briskodian (Fabia vRS back in '06), same username over there...say hi to Shifty and Loz for me! Edited by texasjohn on Saturday 30th August 21:56
Red Devil said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
New officers are far more less likely to be corrupt than the old officers.
Maybe so, but many of them appear to lack common sense and judgement.Something that tends to come with age and experience.
The UK law is very simple. It is illegal to use HID systems on a road car unless the vehicular complies fully with ECE regulation 98 and 48 and is type tested to prove it. Luckily the UK is quite friendly to tuners and you can retrofit HID systems as long as it is to ECE regulation 98 and 48 standards but not having to go through the type testing it self. Your car must also be insured as having such modifications.
Some manufactures have sold card that do not comply to these law. If your car fails to comply then you are indeed open to prosecution. If your car is missing the ECE98 mark on its headlamp unit, missing the self levelling system and/or missing its washer just from new I would contact the manufacture and if there not willing to resolve the problem contact UK trading standard.
Look at this link for a bit more on this subject www.hid.moonfruit.com
Some manufactures have sold card that do not comply to these law. If your car fails to comply then you are indeed open to prosecution. If your car is missing the ECE98 mark on its headlamp unit, missing the self levelling system and/or missing its washer just from new I would contact the manufacture and if there not willing to resolve the problem contact UK trading standard.
Look at this link for a bit more on this subject www.hid.moonfruit.com
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