Idiots straddling lanes on a merge
Discussion
carl_w said:
Why don't they make the 'merged' lane straddle the two lanes, rather than being a continuation of one or the other? That way no-one is already in the 'correct lane' prior to the merge, and hence no-one else is 'pushing in' and merge-in-turn will automatically take place?
You only need the merged bit to be straddling the lanes for a couple of hundred yards, then you could divert it to one of the lanes and close the other.
I like the cut of your jib sir.You only need the merged bit to be straddling the lanes for a couple of hundred yards, then you could divert it to one of the lanes and close the other.
Well the other alternative is to close lane 1 first move everybody over to the right and then back over to the left. It adds more length to the works though. Logic being that people are more reluctant to overtake on the left.
The proper way is still zip merging but done properly with good planning and observation, early actions from ALL parties concerned, slowing down, making space and with a good helping of give and take.
Which is why it never happens.
The proper way is still zip merging but done properly with good planning and observation, early actions from ALL parties concerned, slowing down, making space and with a good helping of give and take.
Which is why it never happens.
Presumably the same way they do at the end of a dual carriageway. For sure, some of those effectively close one lane at the end but I've seen others where you have to fight for it amongst yourselves. Pretty much the same all over London -- four or more lanes at each set of traffic lights, drops down to two after the lights with no markings to indicate who has priority.
There is a slight problem with late "zip" merging. If we assume the traffic is flowing smoothly towards the pinch using all lanes and then merging smoothly ... i.e. working properly ... , that process _minimises_ the length of the tailback but it also _minimises_ the speed of the cars in the tailback. It therefore maximises the change in speed, both when joining the back of the tailback and when accelerating to enter the pinch at an optimal speed, and I suspect those greater changes of speed feel more disruptive to many people than having a tailback that stretches back further but in which they travel at a more constant speed. Regardless of whether or everyone is merging "early" or "late", they will take exactly the same amount of time to reach the pinch, i.e. in terms of journey time, the point at which they merge makes no difference. So the only benefit of zipping is that it shortens the distance occupied by the tailback (and this may of course be very beneficial on those fairly rare occasions when a long tailback might otherwise block junctions, roundabout etc,). But the downside is that it makes the flow of traffic feel more stop/start.
MissElainesNeous said:
carl_w & Ranger 6, without wanting to sound facetious; your new signage would seem perfect in slow moving queues but how would they work at high speed? Whom would would oblige whom?
As Carl said, I would expect that at speed (40mph+) people would do what they do at any normal lane closing scenario, such as the end of a DC, and merge normally (in turn perhaps 
)....?I would expect that when traffic is flowing there wouldn't be anyone straddling or blocking lanes and the discussion here would not be relevant.
Johnnytheboy said:
Yeovilton Air Show day.
Big queues on eastbound A303 (I was going west), with Yeovilton traffic pretty effectively queuing in L1 and through traffic going past in L2.
For a mile or two anyway.
Then I started seeing occasional lorry drivers playing "L2 policeman" to stop what they perceived as queue-jumpers - but who were mostly through-travellers - getting by. After ~2 miles back it was two lanes of static traffic.
Morons, who should have their HGV licences revoked.
That sort of thing happens at the Cheshire show (near Knutsford) as well. It's clearly signed that lane 1 is for show traffic and lane 2 is for through traffic, but you still get all manner of ridiculous antics with people jumping out into lane 2 then trying to merge back in.Big queues on eastbound A303 (I was going west), with Yeovilton traffic pretty effectively queuing in L1 and through traffic going past in L2.
For a mile or two anyway.
Then I started seeing occasional lorry drivers playing "L2 policeman" to stop what they perceived as queue-jumpers - but who were mostly through-travellers - getting by. After ~2 miles back it was two lanes of static traffic.
Morons, who should have their HGV licences revoked.
On the subject of merge in turn vs long queue in the left hand lane - I think Getragdogleg is overstating how much better left lane queue is. While at the pinch point it might be lovely and smooth, to offset that you have 1+ miles of stop start rubbish where everyone is cutting in at random points. Even if everyone merges no more than 800 yards before the pinch, you still have typically at least half the queue stop starting. How that's better than a half length queue with any amount of stop start I'm not sure - at best it's no worse.
As for saying it won't work because too many people don't do it - that sort of thinking is what causes the problem. Sometimes you need to set an example - would you drive at 40 through a residential area, because everyone else does it and to drive at 30 would hold up them up? I didn't think so.
This is a popular thread!
I can see both sides of this argument.
My problem lies with the drivers who 'zip' down the right lane regardless of whether they have planned where to merge in. An unsuspecting motorist has a car appear to his right just yards from the point of merging and thus has to brake to give way. Braking causes the cars behind to brake, causing a jam.
Yes, it works. But it only takes one idiot to screw the system up for everyone. They're usually bitterly determined to get in front of lesser cars and drive something German.
The other day I was in a near-accident caused by the opposite party of this problem.
I was coming down the A602 into Hitchin and it merges into one lane halfway down. I was travelling down the right lane to overtake a truck, then noticed a Skoda Fabia in front of that truck. I overtook the Skoda still with approx. 400 yards to the point of merging. At this point I was a good 3 car lengths ahead of the Skoda, but didn't cut into it's path as I thought I'd do as you should and 'merge' where the lines break at the end of my lane.
Skoda driver speeds up, whilst I'm slowing down for the lower limit I'm approaching. I notice him as I turn in, running out of road. He lets rip on his horn. t
t.
Some people just can't stand to be overtaken it seems. He leant on that horn for a good 20 seconds. I slowed all the while he blared his horn. As he finally stopped I dropped a cog (now going less than 30mph!) and buzzed off.
That'll teach 'em.
I can see both sides of this argument.
My problem lies with the drivers who 'zip' down the right lane regardless of whether they have planned where to merge in. An unsuspecting motorist has a car appear to his right just yards from the point of merging and thus has to brake to give way. Braking causes the cars behind to brake, causing a jam.
Yes, it works. But it only takes one idiot to screw the system up for everyone. They're usually bitterly determined to get in front of lesser cars and drive something German.
The other day I was in a near-accident caused by the opposite party of this problem.
I was coming down the A602 into Hitchin and it merges into one lane halfway down. I was travelling down the right lane to overtake a truck, then noticed a Skoda Fabia in front of that truck. I overtook the Skoda still with approx. 400 yards to the point of merging. At this point I was a good 3 car lengths ahead of the Skoda, but didn't cut into it's path as I thought I'd do as you should and 'merge' where the lines break at the end of my lane.
Skoda driver speeds up, whilst I'm slowing down for the lower limit I'm approaching. I notice him as I turn in, running out of road. He lets rip on his horn. t
t.Some people just can't stand to be overtaken it seems. He leant on that horn for a good 20 seconds. I slowed all the while he blared his horn. As he finally stopped I dropped a cog (now going less than 30mph!) and buzzed off.
That'll teach 'em.
I normally cruise past at a moderate speed (30mph ish) and when I get to within about 2-400 yards of the cones I look for a likely spot to merge. I always try to slot into a gap without having to brake, and (hopefully) without causing the person behind to brake. If the traffic is solid I'll just slow down at the cones and merge there.
I've just given up on this subject, 99% of people are s or can't drive properly, they all sit in lane 1 for 3 miles before the merge and do their best to block anyone trying to drive appropriately and 'merge in turn'.
I now have a new saying... "if you can't beat them, fk them'
Might as well just hoon down the outside and cut in at the last minute, you're going to get the same reaction as when you try to merge properly in turn so just gain as much as possible if you can.
I'm not a bad person but I'm sick and tired of being blocked out by 40+ year olds who think that anyone trying to merge within 1 mile of the pinch is a criminal who deserves to be blocked out and thus holding up all the other traffic.
s or can't drive properly, they all sit in lane 1 for 3 miles before the merge and do their best to block anyone trying to drive appropriately and 'merge in turn'.I now have a new saying... "if you can't beat them, f
k them'Might as well just hoon down the outside and cut in at the last minute, you're going to get the same reaction as when you try to merge properly in turn so just gain as much as possible if you can.
I'm not a bad person but I'm sick and tired of being blocked out by 40+ year old
s who think that anyone trying to merge within 1 mile of the pinch is a criminal who deserves to be blocked out and thus holding up all the other traffic.109 Bob said:
T89 Callan said:
I'm not a bad person but I'm sick and tired of being blocked out by 40+ year old s
s 
Er I'm a 40+ year old & can tell you that age has nothing to do with it. I've had a lot of 20+ year old s try & stop me from merging, thank you very much. T89 Callan said:
I'm not saying 'all' 40+ year olds block the merge just that when it happens to me it always appears to be someone who looks about 40.
Most likely because people around that age who 'look about 40' have st lives and want to take their frustration/impotence out on you. T89 Callan said:
109 Bob said:
T89 Callan said:
I'm not a bad person but I'm sick and tired of being blocked out by 40+ year old s
s Er I'm a 40+ year old & can tell you that age has nothing to do with it. I've had a lot of 20+ year old s try & stop me from merging, thank you very much. 
Ranger 6 said:
MissElainesNeous said:
carl_w & Ranger 6, without wanting to sound facetious; your new signage would seem perfect in slow moving queues but how would they work at high speed? Whom would would oblige whom?
As Carl said, I would expect that at speed (40mph+) people would do what they do at any normal lane closing scenario, such as the end of a DC, and merge normally (in turn perhaps )....?I would expect that when traffic is flowing there wouldn't be anyone straddling or blocking lanes and the discussion here would not be relevant.
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