Not displaying tax disc on a taxed car question.

[TIPPER]

And why am I getting so pissed about a £60 non-endorsable fine?
Pricipal. This country so sinking so low and people like me are getting fed up with going about our lives in normal, law obiding manner yet find ourselves falling foul of petty laws.
If the worse comes to the worse I'll probably pay the fine but the Chief Constable, my MP and the regional newpapers will get a letter. On the other hand if I really get my campaigning hat on I might just tell them to take me to court and have my day in court asking why the law requires me to prove I am complying with the law with a piece of paper when (as far as I understand, the police can check themselves). I'll also ask for a full list of criminal offences committed in Plymouth on the night in question and how the investigations are going and how it is they seem to have been very efficient in dealing with me but not so clever at dealing with the real problems society has.
I'll end up paying for it but it might make a point.

[gareth_r]

It's the consistency that's so impressive...

Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Edited by gareth_r on Saturday 22 August 02:18

[SS2.]

gareth_r said:

Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Not actually having tax and not dislaying a valid tax disc are two completely separate offences.

[herewego]

If it wasn't an offence not to display the disc then no-one would bother to display it and plod patrolling the streets would have to check with DVLA every single vehicle he passed. Also MOPs wouldn't be able to call it in and I suspect that's how most people without tax are caught.

[TIPPER]

gareth_r said:

It's the consistency that's so impressive...

Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Edited by gareth_r on Saturday 22 August 02:18

Yep and thats the sort of thing that's getting up people's noses. Its no good the power that be sticking their heads in the sand - there's a real world populated by real people beyond their ivory towers and most of those people just want to be left alone to live their blameless lives not be harrassed by beaurocracy.

[TIPPER]

gareth_r said:

It's the consistency that's so impressive...

Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Edited by gareth_r on Saturday 22 August 02:18

Yep and thats the sort of thing that's getting up people's noses. Its no good the power that be sticking their heads in the sand - there's a real world populated by real people beyond their ivory towers and most of those people just want to be left alone to live their blameless lives not be harrassed by beaurocracy.

[rypt]

SS2. said:

gareth_r said:

Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Not actually having tax and not dislaying a valid tax disc are two completely separate offences.

Except that it is not an offence in the 5 days of renewing tax ... as you are not displaying a valid tax disk in that period. So the same rules could and should apply for a next tax disk.

[SS2.]

rypt said:

SS2. said:

gareth_r said:

Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Not actually having tax and not dislaying a valid tax disc are two completely separate offences.

Except that it is not an offence in the 5 days of renewing tax ...

It is in the present case where the OP's old disc expired before the new disc was applied for.

[Robert060379]

Did you sell the Alfa yet? I know somone who's looking for one.

[TIPPER]

Robert060379 said:

Did you sell the Alfa yet? I know somone who's looking for one.

Yep, sorry. I had lots of tyre kickers and time wasters but only one really interested party. For a few days before I sold it into the trade I dropped the price to the same as the dealer had offered me but nobody bit.
Too much hassle selling cars, even through PH!

[TIPPER]

Just to show how funny the car market is at the moment. I only lost ablut £300 after a year despite buying off and selling back into the trade. The dealer that bought the car off me put it up for £400 more than I paid for it the previous year and the car had sold within a week!!

[SmoothCriminal]

It doesn't say anywhere on the dvla website that you can drive your car before you've recieved your tax disc anyway so it's not their fault you got a ticket,I'd never tax a car online if it's been sorned, if you wanted to drive it that badly you should'ave bought your tax at the post office.

Edited by SmoothCriminal on Saturday 22 August 21:21

[rs1952]

herewego said:

If it wasn't an offence not to display the disc then no-one would bother to display it

So, exactly, what? We don't have a system in this country whereby insurance certificates have to be displayed in the windscreen, yet somehow the world seems to go on.

herewego said:

.... and plod patrolling the streets would have to check with DVLA every single vehicle he passed.

1. When did you last see a "patrolling plod?"
2. When did you last see 'em checking tax discs?
3. And, back to the earlier point, how did these "patrolling plod" check insurance?

herewego said:

Also MOPs wouldn't be able to call it in and I suspect that's how most people without tax are caught.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer. If you think its a good idea to encourage people to mind other people's business in such a petty way then there's not much hope for you

Is that the way you spend your day, wandering the streets checking people's tax discs?

I suspect most people without tax are caught by ANPR, and/or DVLA having no record of current tax and no SORN

[jessica]

TIPPER said:

sy534534 said:

Thanks MRMR96, but the police didn't say that, the civvy behind the desk did and i suspect it was just to get rid of the OP. The offence has been comitted, why are people always trying to weasle out of these type of things? ( Awaits inevitable flaming )

Because I object to paying my road tax and then not being able to use the car. Its absolutely ridiculous that we have a system that allows me to tax a vehicle online from the moment I press the send button yet I can be prosecuted for failing to show the receipt. Surely either the archaic law ought to be brought up to date or plod given a decent system to check the status of a car.
I'm not the sort of pikey that drives aound in untaxed or uninsured vehicles. I'm just an ordinary but very busy person and don't have time to stand in post office queues to get a tax disc. The dvla send enough bumf encouraging on-line payment: its about time the system caught up and was introduced to the 21st century.
I once had a Jag that 'followed' me for over a year after I sold it. Trying to prove to the dvla that I had sold the car and that it wasn't me comitting the offences proved such a pita I paid up twice. The third time I told them to take me to court and was told to forget it and they'd update their records.
Sorry if I sound like I'm whinging but as far as I'm concerned I taxed my car using the most up to date method - if the method of taxing the vehicle is changed then the law concerning how one polices that also needs to be changed. Bloody jobsworth of a copper to nick me for failing to display in my view - I'm sure it must have been the only thing troubling the police in Plymouth on the night in question yet the police wonder why the public often have such a low view of them .
I'm generally supportive of plod and didn't come on here to complain or ask how to wrangle out of a speeding fine two years ago. I was speeding, I got caught, got a reasoned (not patronising) talking to and paid up without any form of resentment. I even wished the copper who nicked me a happy Christmas (and meant it - I wouldn't want his job for the world). However if Joe Public is being harrassed for technical 'offences' (in this case an outmoded one introduced when the only system for checking a vehicles status was checking what was on the car) then the Police will continue to be seen in a bad light by those who would normally support them.
I hope none of the BIB on here take offence as I'm not copper bashing. I'm just pissed with the system and, as I've said, generally supportive of those who undertake a job that I wouldn't want. Keep up the (generally) good workt

I agree totally with if they let you pay for it online. why cant we download a temp disc until the real one appears in the post.
Typical sodding beaurocratic twoddle. they need 16 stickers and stampers and and one postman to come up with the goods.
thats why we pay lots of taxes.

I think we need a government petition.......... i am quite happy to lobby.
insured my car friday, MOT'ed and taxed online. Cant drive it till tax disc turns up.
perhaps i should become a criminal and not give a ste and drive it anyway.? edited to add i wont. but i would like to.

Edited by jessica on Saturday 22 August 22:38

[Badgerboy]

I don't display my tax disc on the bike, primarily because the last one and its shiny holder went walkies when I left it parked for 30 minutes in a town centre.

I usually carry mine in my bag, so I can display it if needed. Am I likely to get collared for this? I expect the person in question would be having a very bad day if they did so.

[gareth_r]

rypt said:

SS2. said:

gareth_r said:

Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.

Not actually having tax and not dislaying a valid tax disc are two completely separate offences.

Except that it is not an offence in the 5 days of renewing tax ... as you are not displaying a valid tax disk in that period. So the same rules could and should apply for a next tax disk.

I know <sigh>... but what's the point of pursuing a prosecution when it can be checked so easily.

Edited by gareth_r on Sunday 23 August 00:32

[Robert060379]

Badgerboy said:

I don't display my tax disc on the bike, primarily because the last one and its shiny holder went walkies when I left it parked for 30 minutes in a town centre.

I usually carry mine in my bag, so I can display it if needed. Am I likely to get collared for this? I expect the person in question would be having a very bad day if they did so.

Yes but if you explain to the officer/PCSO/Traffic Warden/Nosey Git why your Tax disk is not on display then most are pretty understanding about it. Also if you quote the crime number (in my case numbers) of the missing presumed stollen Tax disk report then they can check up on that to confirm you're not pulling a shifty.

[herewego]

rs1952 said:

herewego said:

If it wasn't an offence not to display the disc then no-one would bother to display it

So, exactly, what? We don't have a system in this country whereby insurance certificates have to be displayed in the windscreen, yet somehow the world seems to go on.

herewego said:

.... and plod patrolling the streets would have to check with DVLA every single vehicle he passed.

1. When did you last see a "patrolling plod?"
2. When did you last see 'em checking tax discs?
3. And, back to the earlier point, how did these "patrolling plod" check insurance?

herewego said:

Also MOPs wouldn't be able to call it in and I suspect that's how most people without tax are caught.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer. If you think its a good idea to encourage people to mind other people's business in such a petty way then there's not much hope for you

Is that the way you spend your day, wandering the streets checking people's tax discs?

I suspect most people without tax are caught by ANPR, and/or DVLA having no record of current tax and no SORN

Yes it could be that ANPR has taken over now.

You can argue for a completely computerised system and do away with the discs but people do complain when the computer says no.

[CardShark]

Unfortunately 'failure to display' is the offence in question and, I would think, stand up in court should it go further, I say 'unfortunately' because there have been a few interesting points made that do make it all sound a bit silly and possibly a little out moded.

To add another, I've recently re-insured my cars and did it all over the 'phone. After passing over my credit card details and the payment was authorised a policy number was generated, with that I was told that I was now legally covered to drive the vehicles and that my certificate etc would be in the post - so here we have a situation where I can legally drive the cars but had no 'proof' in the same sense as this tax disc scenario except for the policy number that I'd scribbled down on a piece of paper. Perhaps the DVLA could, on payment of a disc on the net, generate an authorisation number or such like which could then be displayed on the vehicle until the disc turns up?

Any thoughts?

[flemke]

CardShark said:

Unfortunately 'failure to display' is the offence in question and, I would think, stand up in court should it go further, I say 'unfortunately' because there have been a few interesting points made that do make it all sound a bit silly and possibly a little out moded.

To add another, I've recently re-insured my cars and did it all over the 'phone. After passing over my credit card details and the payment was authorised a policy number was generated, with that I was told that I was now legally covered to drive the vehicles and that my certificate etc would be in the post - so here we have a situation where I can legally drive the cars but had no 'proof' in the same sense as this tax disc scenario except for the policy number that I'd scribbled down on a piece of paper. Perhaps the DVLA could, on payment of a disc on the net, generate an authorisation number or such like which could then be displayed on the vehicle until the disc turns up?

Any thoughts?

When you re-tax via the DVLA website, you get sent a confirming e-mail. At the very least, you should be able to leave that e-mail on your dashboard in order to "display" that you have paid the tax.