Not displaying tax disc on a taxed car question.
Discussion
Hi, I don't think I've posted in here before but I'm after a bit of friendly advice from any BIB.
Story:
I owned until recently an Alfa 156 which at the end of April (having been made redundant) I SORNED (we have two other cars to use). The Alfa remained parked on our gated driveway. In early July I put the Alfa up for sale. Two lads come to view one evening and then ask for a test drive. I suddenly realise the car isn't taxed so get onto the dvla website and tax the vehicle. A couple of days later I drive the car to a local industrial estate and park it up (legally!) with for sale signs in the window. I leave the car parked there overnight and return the next evening to find a notice from plod on the car w3ith a penalty notice 'to the driver' for not diplaying a tax disc.
I call on the local police station which deals with these issues and am told by the civvy at the front desk that If I write a letter explaining the situation then the ticket will be withdrawn. I do this and explain in the letter that I have subsequently sold the car and included the tax in the sale. I get a reply asking for a copy of the tax disc (which I obviously no longer have
).
Unfortunately the confirmation e-mail from the dvla seems to have vanished into the ether (along with about 2 months worth of other e-mails - not sure why) so I ring the dvla asking to be sent a copy. They can't do that and tell me the tax disc is my receipt. So why not contqct the new owner? I sold the car to a dealer who has sold the car and can't (data protection) tell me who he sold it to.
So I've complied with the law but I'm going to be fined under an archaic law designed to discourage people from using Guinness labels as tax discs (long time ago!!).
To me its absolutely bloody ridiculous that the dvla is encouraging taxing vehicles online yet our system doesn't appear to let plod see exactly when a vehicle was taxed.
I'm prepared to go to court on this one to make a point as why should I pay for a tax disc and not be able to use a vehicle for up to five days (or more whilst waiting for the disc)? However it also strikes me that perhaps local pliod are being a bit lazy and could save everyone a lot of hassle by contacting the dvla themselves?
Any ideas?
Off out for a bbite to eat so I'll be back a little later.
TIA.
Story:
I owned until recently an Alfa 156 which at the end of April (having been made redundant) I SORNED (we have two other cars to use). The Alfa remained parked on our gated driveway. In early July I put the Alfa up for sale. Two lads come to view one evening and then ask for a test drive. I suddenly realise the car isn't taxed so get onto the dvla website and tax the vehicle. A couple of days later I drive the car to a local industrial estate and park it up (legally!) with for sale signs in the window. I leave the car parked there overnight and return the next evening to find a notice from plod on the car w3ith a penalty notice 'to the driver' for not diplaying a tax disc.
I call on the local police station which deals with these issues and am told by the civvy at the front desk that If I write a letter explaining the situation then the ticket will be withdrawn. I do this and explain in the letter that I have subsequently sold the car and included the tax in the sale. I get a reply asking for a copy of the tax disc (which I obviously no longer have
).Unfortunately the confirmation e-mail from the dvla seems to have vanished into the ether (along with about 2 months worth of other e-mails - not sure why) so I ring the dvla asking to be sent a copy. They can't do that and tell me the tax disc is my receipt. So why not contqct the new owner? I sold the car to a dealer who has sold the car and can't (data protection) tell me who he sold it to.
So I've complied with the law but I'm going to be fined under an archaic law designed to discourage people from using Guinness labels as tax discs (long time ago!!).
To me its absolutely bloody ridiculous that the dvla is encouraging taxing vehicles online yet our system doesn't appear to let plod see exactly when a vehicle was taxed.
I'm prepared to go to court on this one to make a point as why should I pay for a tax disc and not be able to use a vehicle for up to five days (or more whilst waiting for the disc)? However it also strikes me that perhaps local pliod are being a bit lazy and could save everyone a lot of hassle by contacting the dvla themselves?
Any ideas?
Off out for a bbite to eat so I'll be back a little later.
TIA.
SmoothCriminal said:
I thought the offence was failure to display a valid tax disc? If so you're caught bang to rights go to court and they'll fine you even more.
Correct, although it may be possible for the BIB to let the OP off with a warning.A couple of things:
- You've done the transaction via the DVLA website with a debit/credit card. You will have a bank statement with the charge and date on it. It will not indicate the reg number, but at least it will help to make your case to the police. I would think, but don't know, that the police would be able to check whether you are the RK of any other cars that had to be retaxed at about the same time. That would further bolster your argument (at least logically, if not legalistically).
- The dealer who bought the car cannot give you the new owner's details, but they most certainly can contact that owner themselves and ask him/her to send them a photocopy of the disc, which they could pass on to you.
Yep, that's what i thought. You weren't displaying a Tax disc, which you yourself admit, bang to rights. I don't see why you're bothering to get the old disc etc when the offence is failure to display, nothing to do with whether it was taxed or not?
Edited by sy534534 on Friday 21st August 20:33
SS2. said:
mudster said:
Failure to display is not an offence if it's within 5 days of applying for a disc online.
Only if the application for the new disc was made before the previous disc had expired.I've got the credit card statement and I'll take along the tax discs for our other cars and hopefully that'll keep them happy.
I find it incredulous that I'm having to go to quiet a lot of trouble (impossible to get through to the relevant office by phone and no copper will ever come to the civilian manned front desk) and its the second time this year. The first time was just after I'd taxed my Elise which had been on SORN for a couple of months over the winter. Do plod really not have the ability to check these things out or is the DVLA computer system so poor than it can't immedietly update itself? Seems bloody ridiculous to me that I can tax a car online but then not use it until the piece of paper turns up.
Thankd anyway guys.
Ok i'm obviously missing something here! Why are people bothering to tell you how to get proof of payment, how to contact the new owner etc, etc, etc. It's FAILURE TO DISPLAY!!! The OP wasn't done for not having paid for the tax disc was he? Doesn't matter about the old disc, or the fact that you'd already applied and paid on-line, you didn't display the disc! They only want the old disc to check that it was expired beyond the 5 day limit for replacement, which from the sounds of the OP is the case. Someone please explain this to me as i just don't get it, seriously. 
Checked this with a magistrate a while ago, following a series of thefts of tax discs where I was living. Two separate offences - being untaxed, and failure to display. Both absolute offences, like speeding, expect you'll be nicjked for the latter by nasty little monkeys who cant or wont check the online stuff. Still carries a fine though.
rypt said:
SS2. said:
mudster said:
Failure to display is not an offence if it's within 5 days of applying for a disc online.
Only if the application for the new disc was made before the previous disc had expired.TIPPER said:
SS2. said:
mudster said:
Failure to display is not an offence if it's within 5 days of applying for a disc online.
Only if the application for the new disc was made before the previous disc had expired.The 5 day exemption applies only if the new tax disc was applied for in the month that the previous tax disc expired. That cannot have been the case here if the vehicle had been SORN'd for 3 months.
sy534534 said:
Ok i'm obviously missing something here! Why are people bothering to tell you how to get proof of payment, how to contact the new owner etc, etc, etc. It's FAILURE TO DISPLAY!!! The OP wasn't done for not having paid for the tax disc was he? Doesn't matter about the old disc, or the fact that you'd already applied and paid on-line, you didn't display the disc! They only want the old disc to check that it was expired beyond the 5 day limit for replacement, which from the sounds of the OP is the case. Someone please explain this to me as i just don't get it, seriously.
I think you missed this bit from the OPTIPPER said:
I call on the local police station which deals with these issues and am told by the civvy at the front desk that If I write a letter explaining the situation then the ticket will be withdrawn. I do this and explain in the letter that I have subsequently sold the car and included the tax in the sale. I get a reply asking for a copy of the tax disc
I took the request for copy of disc to be for the purpose of determining the date it was purchased (which would be written on the disc). Therefore if what the police have (effectively) asked for is a proof of date of purchase then the credit card statement should help.I agree that the offence is 'failure to display' however the police have indicated they will let it go if he can prove he had bought tax.
Hope that clears it up for you. :-)
sy534534 said:
Thanks MRMR96, but the police didn't say that, the civvy behind the desk did 
and i suspect it was just to get rid of the OP. The offence has been comitted, why are people always trying to weasle out of these type of things? ( Awaits inevitable flaming 
)
Because I object to paying my road tax and then not being able to use the car. Its absolutely ridiculous that we have a system that allows me to tax a vehicle online from the moment I press the send button yet I can be prosecuted for failing to show the receipt. Surely either the archaic law ought to be brought up to date or plod given a decent system to check the status of a car. and i suspect it was just to get rid of the OP. The offence has been comitted, why are people always trying to weasle out of these type of things? ( Awaits inevitable flaming ) I'm not the sort of pikey that drives aound in untaxed or uninsured vehicles. I'm just an ordinary but very busy person and don't have time to stand in post office queues to get a tax disc. The dvla send enough bumf encouraging on-line payment: its about time the system caught up and was introduced to the 21st century.
I once had a Jag that 'followed' me for over a year after I sold it. Trying to prove to the dvla that I had sold the car and that it wasn't me comitting the offences proved such a pita I paid up twice. The third time I told them to take me to court and was told to forget it and they'd update their records.
Sorry if I sound like I'm whinging but as far as I'm concerned I taxed my car using the most up to date method - if the method of taxing the vehicle is changed then the law concerning how one polices that also needs to be changed. Bloody jobsworth of a copper to nick me for failing to display in my view - I'm sure it must have been the only thing troubling the police in Plymouth on the night in question yet the police wonder why the public often have such a low view of them .
I'm generally supportive of plod and didn't come on here to complain or ask how to wrangle out of a speeding fine two years ago. I was speeding, I got caught, got a reasoned (not patronising) talking to and paid up without any form of resentment. I even wished the copper who nicked me a happy Christmas (and meant it - I wouldn't want his job for the world). However if Joe Public is being harrassed for technical 'offences' (in this case an outmoded one introduced when the only system for checking a vehicles status was checking what was on the car) then the Police will continue to be seen in a bad light by those who would normally support them.
I hope none of the BIB on here take offence as I'm not copper bashing. I'm just pissed with the system and, as I've said, generally supportive of those who undertake a job that I wouldn't want. Keep up the (generally
) good work
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