What is the law re: driving with foot in plaster?

What is the law re: driving with foot in plaster?

Author
Discussion

oldsoak

5,618 posts

201 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
Oldsoak, as mentioned earlier- there is no way on earth that a Doctor would sign me off as alright to drive (I assume) so that sentence just reads to me that I cant.
Then that is your answer then...if you are so sure a Doc wouldn't sign to say you were OK even though there is no specific offence committed by driving whilst your foot is in plaster.
You did ask what the law's position was didn't you?
You now know...job done. smile

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

243 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Sect 94 RTA 1988
[in a nutshell ]
Provision of information, etc. relating to disabilities

(1) If at any time during the period for which his licence remains in force, a licence holder becomes aware—

(a) that he is suffering from a relevant disability which he has not previously disclosed to the Secretary of State, the licence holder must forthwith notify the Secretary of State in writing of the nature and extent of his disability.

“relevant disability” in relation to any person means—

any other disability likely to cause the driving of a vehicle by him in pursuance of a licence to be a source of danger to the public,

(2) The licence holder is not required to notify the Secretary of State above if—

(a) the disability is one from which he has not previously suffered, and

(b) he has reasonable grounds for believing that the duration of the disability will not extend beyond the period of three months beginning with the date on which he first becomes aware that he suffers from it.

(3) A person who fails without reasonable excuse to notify the Secretary of State as required by subsection (1) above is guilty of an offence.

But what about the small print on the Insurance Policy re notification of anything that puts them at risk?

Under S 148 RTA 88 they would still have to pay out against 3rd party risks if anything untoward happened whilst driving with a gammy leg but if not notified under the terms of the policy then fully comp aspect will be up the spout and also give an opening for them to claim back third part costs from driver.

dvd

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Dwight VanDriver said:
Sect 94 RTA 1988
And there's still ambiguity in there, as it asks for any disability that would make them a 'danger'.

I haven't seen anything yet that contradicts being able to control the vehicle safely being the deciding factor.

The potential sticky patch would be an accident, blamed on the person wearing the cast, attributed to an associated loss of control. For example rear-ending somebody and being accused of not being able to brake properly. Then you're potentially looking at a Dangerous charge for your trouble.

oldsoak

5,618 posts

201 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Dvd that legislation isn't relevant to this case *unless* the plaster would be on said appendage in excess of 3 months...the normal time span for plaster removal is around 6 WEEKS ergo one does not commit any offence if one doesn't notify Sec of State or drives with leg in plaster.
smile

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
oldsoak said:
Then that is your answer then...if you are so sure a Doc wouldn't sign to say you were OK even though there is no specific offence committed by driving whilst your foot is in plaster.
You did ask what the law's position was didn't you?
You now know...job done. smile
Contrary to perception, IM not trying to be argumentative. I don't really get your point.
I don't think a doctors opinion is that relevant (opinion, not law obviously) in that a doctor could never be a judge of driving ability thus would never ever sing something effectively giving you carte blanche to drive.
I cannot envisage any situation whatsoever that a doctor would sign you off as fit to drive regardless of whether you can actually drive as they don't actually know.

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Dwight VanDriver said:
Under S 148 RTA 88 they would still have to pay out against 3rd party risks if anything untoward happened whilst driving with a gammy leg but if not notified under the terms of the policy then fully comp aspect will be up the spout and also give an opening for them to claim back third part costs from driver.

dvd
And surely, they would have to prove that my disability hindered my driving, and further that this disability caused the accident in order to refuse to pay out?

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
SOrry and another aspect of this is whether the police would have a problem with it and whether you could get points?
Any of the resident BiB able to answer?
Are there still any resident BiB?

oldsoak

5,618 posts

201 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
oldsoak said:
Then that is your answer then...if you are so sure a Doc wouldn't sign to say you were OK even though there is no specific offence committed by driving whilst your foot is in plaster.
You did ask what the law's position was didn't you?
You now know...job done. smile
Contrary to perception, IM not trying to be argumentative. I don't really get your point.
I don't think a doctors opinion is that relevant (opinion, not law obviously) in that a doctor could never be a judge of driving ability thus would never ever sing something effectively giving you carte blanche to drive.
I cannot envisage any situation whatsoever that a doctor would sign you off as fit to drive regardless of whether you can actually drive as they don't actually know.
Don't think you are being argumentative at all...you asked for clarification so I assumed you didn't actually know the law relating to your disability.
The 'quacks' opinion has no relevance as far as the law is concerned whilst there is no specific law prohibiting you driving with a leg in plaster there are laws covering you not being in full and proper control of your vehicle.
A note from the quack does have bearing where your insurance is concerned. Should you drive and 'come a cropper' they may get shirty and void your insurance if ..
a. you didn't tell them
and/or
b. didn't cover your backside by getting a quack to sign to say you were OK to drive.
As with all things it comes down to that rare commodity..'common sense' as to whether you are fit enough to drive...get it wrong and your leg won't be the only problem you have.
smile

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
SOrry and another aspect of this is whether the police would have a problem with it and whether you could get points?
Any of the resident BiB able to answer?
Are there still any resident BiB?
As DVD has posted, I don't believe there's any specific legislation precluding plaster-casted people from driving. The legislation DVD posted would apply to new epileptics and so on.

The two remaining issues are; is it dangerous to drive in your current condition and would you be negating your insurance cover by wilfully driving when you knew it was unsafe to do so?

If you were stopped by the BiB and could demonstrate you can operate the car safely, I would imagine the insurance side of things would be the only way I can think you'd fall foul.

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Consisely put Oldsoak and exactly as I would have assumed.
Is it fair to say, then, that I could not be 'done' by the police for driving with a plaster unless my supposed disability caused a driving infringement?



Edited by blindswelledrat on Monday 23 November 16:35

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
That would be my take on it.

Devilstreak

8,088 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
A bit late to the party but i've just got my leg out of cast(last week) after breaking my ankle. Had a cast on my leg from knee down to toes. Was told by various quacks not to drive as it would invalidate my insurance. Plus it would of been impossible to perform an emergency stop as I couldn't put any weight/pressure on it. Take from that what you will.

Bill

52,407 posts

254 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
oldsoak said:
blindswelledrat said:
oldsoak said:
Then that is your answer then...if you are so sure a Doc wouldn't sign to say you were OK even though there is no specific offence committed by driving whilst your foot is in plaster.
You did ask what the law's position was didn't you?
You now know...job done. smile
Contrary to perception, IM not trying to be argumentative. I don't really get your point.
I don't think a doctors opinion is that relevant (opinion, not law obviously) in that a doctor could never be a judge of driving ability thus would never ever sing something effectively giving you carte blanche to drive.
I cannot envisage any situation whatsoever that a doctor would sign you off as fit to drive regardless of whether you can actually drive as they don't actually know.
Don't think you are being argumentative at all...you asked for clarification so I assumed you didn't actually know the law relating to your disability.
The 'quacks' opinion has no relevance as far as the law is concerned whilst there is no specific law prohibiting you driving with a leg in plaster there are laws covering you not being in full and proper control of your vehicle.
A note from the quack does have bearing where your insurance is concerned. Should you drive and 'come a cropper' they may get shirty and void your insurance if ..
a. you didn't tell them
and/or
b. didn't cover your backside by getting a quack to sign to say you were OK to drive.
As with all things it comes down to that rare commodity..'common sense' as to whether you are fit enough to drive...get it wrong and your leg won't be the only problem you have.
smile
IME (having driven during 3 plaster episodes) very few docs will sign you off to drive uless you push them. So I ended up stuck between the insurers asking what the doc said and the doc asking what the insurers saidbanghead I also spoke to a disabled driving instructor (IIRC) to clarify this.

AFAIK there's no legislation relating to being in plaster but obviously there's the question of whether you're in full control of the vehicle which is unlikely to be questioned unless you have an accident.

This being your right foot the main concern is whether you can get onto the brake sufficiently quickly and maintain the pressure adequately for an emergency stop. This will be the doc's concern. If you're meant to be non-weightbearing they probably won't want you using your foot to drive at all, but partial weightbearing may be fine. Bear in mind that as far as reaction time goes you might also be slowed by fear of pain in the leg.

The insurers will IME be happy if the doc says yes.

You could always get hold of an auto and left foot brake, or even drive entirely left footed.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
Could you stop the car in the event of loss of brake assistance (e.g. engine cuts out)? In most modern cars this is a tough job for someone with reasonably strong legs, I doubt it would be remotely possible with a cast on.

streaky

19,311 posts

248 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
SOrry, fair point. THis was then contradicted by the next paragraph with a quote saying that it isn't really legal so Im still none the wiser though.
No, but more thoroughly informed [with apologies to Frederick Edwin Smith, 1st Earl of Birkenhead]wink - Streaky

^Slider^

2,874 posts

248 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
Only thing i can think of is this:

S.41D RTA 1988:
No person shall drive, or cause or permit any other person to drive, a motorised vehicle on a road if he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead.

It seems very vague, and i presume it could be argued that should you need to apply emergency brakes could you do so as swiftly as if your leg was not in a cast?

If you were to be stopped then its an endorsable 3 points offence at the roadside if the officer deems that you are not in proper control.

If a court appearance was to be considered then if a doctor was to be called and state that they would not advise driving then i would say that you would be convicted.

But it is vague so could go either way.

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
Ah, but Slider (Am I right in thinking you are/were traffic?)

If you were to stop someone for speeding, for example, and then noticed thier leg in plaster- would you push that issue, or not?

^Slider^

2,874 posts

248 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
blindswelledrat said:
Ah, but Slider (Am I right in thinking you are/were traffic?)

If you were to stop someone for speeding, for example, and then noticed thier leg in plaster- would you push that issue, or not?
I am traffic at the moment!

I would say that it would depend, personally, should the speed be in excess but low, then advise regarding the leg in plaster.

If it was school kicking out time, your doing 44 in a 30 and nearly run me over as im in the middle of the road because you couldnt stop quickly enough then id consider the control issue.

Its all about the curcumstances at the time.

Not the answer your looking for but give me something specific then ill try and answer.

If in my view your driving is fine for a stop check only then id possibly advise. If other factors about your driving aggrivate it then id consider more.

Just bear in mind this is what i may do, not what other officers would do!

oldsoak

5,618 posts

201 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
^Slider^ said:
Only thing i can think of is this:

S.41D RTA 1988:
No person shall drive, or cause or permit any other person to drive, a motorised vehicle on a road if he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead.

It seems very vague, and i presume it could be argued that should you need to apply emergency brakes could you do so as swiftly as if your leg was not in a cast?

If you were to be stopped then its an endorsable 3 points offence at the roadside if the officer deems that you are not in proper control.

If a court appearance was to be considered then if a doctor was to be called and state that they would not advise driving then i would say that you would be convicted.

But it is vague so could go either way.
Isn't that pertaining to mobile phone use and maintaining the view ahead a-la Construction and Use Regs??

Edited by oldsoak on Tuesday 24th November 13:24

blindswelledrat

Original Poster:

25,257 posts

231 months

Tuesday 24th November 2009
quotequote all
Ok-to be more specific, provided that you had no reason to believe my driving was affected by my leg, would you ever try to make it an issue?
Would this apply to most traffic officers?

Secondly-could the fact that this may affect my insurance mean I could get done for driving without valid inurance?