No Motor Vehicles Except for Access Sign?
Discussion
saaby93 said:
F i F said:
Indeed, we have exactly this situation. Councillors and locals wanted a no access TRO to avoid rat running round a set of lights.
It's not their road! It's everyone's.How do you squash one of these?
Bet they changed the lights to one of those change to red if anything's coming types and included pedestrian when they've already crossed phases for further annoyance.
Suppose changing the lights to a mini-roundabout was too obvious?
A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
As one who has written specifications for loads of traffic signal controllers over the past 30 years I have never heard of this particular feature. Perhaps you can enlighten?
They detect a vehicle approaching and hold it with a red light so it blocks other traffic from doing a drive through, then give a green light to the crossing road. It's only a safety measure. It's not necessary to ask for it to get it.
ks I'm afraid.saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
saaby93 said:
and included pedestrian when they've already crossed phases for further annoyance.
Not new - an unfortunate consequence of pedestrian phases, since the first one was introduced. Newer signals can have pedestrian presence detectors that act as "cancel" switches - ped presses button, signals note demand to include pedestrians at the appropriate point in the sequence. If the pedestrians crosses or wanders off before that time, the pedestrian demand is cancelled. Fairly new facility, but can be "rolled out" as signal equipment is replaced and/or where wandering pedestrians are a problem.saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
saaby93 said:
Suppose changing the lights to a mini-roundabout was too obvious?
Depends - personally I think mini roundabouts are crap (they wouldn't be if most drivers knew how to use them, but they don't, so they are). 
Still seem to do better than lights? For pedestrians see above.I have a feeling that anything that makes road users of all types look at each other and decide what to do seems to work better than each of them interacting with their own set of lights ( but I had right of way).
eldar said:
Village I live in has a similar problem. Classic rat run, 10,000 people working at one place 2 miles away, so its is interesting at start and finish times.
A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
Whereabouts do you live?A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
I assume you're talking about Sellafield - there are a few things they've done to stop rat running. Such as strange priorities on the roundabout at Blackbeck, and traffic lights on the one at St Thomas Cross. Basically to stop people cutting through Beckermet/Egremont to get ahead of the queue.
tvrgit said:
saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
If you lived on the "rat-run" you'd be the first to be complaining about the amount of traffic using it.
Well if it had always been a so-called rat run, then as traffic levels increase we all have to take our fair share.As per my post yesterday: if they live on it, it's a rat run and they want it closed.
If they don't live on it, it's fair fame and they complain like hell if it's closed.
As FiF said earlier, it depends who has the local councillors on their side, who are prepared to over-rule the advice of their professional officers and the police.
herewego said:
Each one is different so it depends on circumstances but for the type of rat run that I'm familiar with e.g narrow residential roads shortcutting congested junctions then I'd say the vast majority don't take the piss, they stick to the main roads, they understand that sometimes the main road will be busy and it's just a small minority of unthinking or plain selfish people who dive down the side streets.
Don't disagree that it depends on circumstances, or that it's a minority who do it - but even that minority can make a big difference if you live there because (a) even 5% of the main road traffic might be a 100% increase in the traffic that would normally use the side road, and (b) they will normally be going faster than a resident would (because the whole point in them being there is to beat the queue).Rat-running is a problem for residents - but controlling it is very difficult, if you're not going to just move the problem on to somebody else.
tvrgit said:
herewego said:
Each one is different so it depends on circumstances but for the type of rat run that I'm familiar with e.g narrow residential roads shortcutting congested junctions then I'd say the vast majority don't take the piss, they stick to the main roads, they understand that sometimes the main road will be busy and it's just a small minority of unthinking or plain selfish people who dive down the side streets.
Don't disagree that it depends on circumstances, or that it's a minority who do it - but even that minority can make a big difference if you live there because (a) even 5% of the main road traffic might be a 100% increase in the traffic that would normally use the side road, and (b) they will normally be going faster than a resident would (because the whole point in them being there is to beat the queue).Rat-running is a problem for residents - but controlling it is very difficult, if you're not going to just move the problem on to somebody else.
herewego said:
tvrgit said:
herewego said:
Each one is different so it depends on circumstances but for the type of rat run that I'm familiar with e.g narrow residential roads shortcutting congested junctions then I'd say the vast majority don't take the piss, they stick to the main roads, they understand that sometimes the main road will be busy and it's just a small minority of unthinking or plain selfish people who dive down the side streets.
Don't disagree that it depends on circumstances, or that it's a minority who do it - but even that minority can make a big difference if you live there because (a) even 5% of the main road traffic might be a 100% increase in the traffic that would normally use the side road, and (b) they will normally be going faster than a resident would (because the whole point in them being there is to beat the queue).Rat-running is a problem for residents - but controlling it is very difficult, if you're not going to just move the problem on to somebody else.
herewego said:
I agree. Some people just won't recognise that it's a problem and in the end the only way is a physical barrier.
That's no solution as all it does is route the traffic past some other poor who's already taking their fair share. They then ask for a barrier too, what happens then?In most places traffic will gradually have increased and we all tolerate it for the benefit of moving freely ourselves.
It's when theres a step change caused by some new scheme elsewhere that issues arise. Find out whats done it and see if something can be changed there. No one said it was easy.
Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 28th February 11:30
tvrgit said:
herewego said:
tvrgit said:
herewego said:
Each one is different so it depends on circumstances but for the type of rat run that I'm familiar with e.g narrow residential roads shortcutting congested junctions then I'd say the vast majority don't take the piss, they stick to the main roads, they understand that sometimes the main road will be busy and it's just a small minority of unthinking or plain selfish people who dive down the side streets.
Don't disagree that it depends on circumstances, or that it's a minority who do it - but even that minority can make a big difference if you live there because (a) even 5% of the main road traffic might be a 100% increase in the traffic that would normally use the side road, and (b) they will normally be going faster than a resident would (because the whole point in them being there is to beat the queue).Rat-running is a problem for residents - but controlling it is very difficult, if you're not going to just move the problem on to somebody else.
I suppose that's just life. I guess it'll be that way until our cars drive themselves then we can programme the destination and it will only go down those roads when that's where we are visiting.tvrgit said:
.... and then the residents realise that the physical barrier is a PITA for them as well so ask for it to be taken away again after a few months...
I recognise this only too well. Other requests they make are for crossings, where the volume of pedestrian traffic will never justify one, and when they're told they can't have that they want traffic calming - and when they get it they realise it fks their cars as badly as "other people's" and and want it taken away...Who would be a planner! When you do good work no-one notices. When you do bad work, despite the idiots asking for it, they b
h and moan.I only know all this as I got involved in a local dispute to do with traffic calming. Turns out a few influential people wanted it, then it's difficult to say whether they "used" or "abused" the democratic process to get the damn stuff up the local agenda. Project got done - populace up in arms about it - they've now agreed it will be removed as and when the road is resurfaced which could be years away.
What a waste of public money.
Rat runs may be an issue - no dispute there - but always be careful what you ask for, you might just get it!
blank said:
eldar said:
Village I live in has a similar problem. Classic rat run, 10,000 people working at one place 2 miles away, so its is interesting at start and finish times.
A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
Whereabouts do you live?A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
I assume you're talking about Sellafield - there are a few things they've done to stop rat running. Such as strange priorities on the roundabout at Blackbeck, and traffic lights on the one at St Thomas Cross. Basically to stop people cutting through Beckermet/Egremont to get ahead of the queue.
Plans for another 7 reactors, and upto 5000 more contractors isn't going to help.
herewego said:
tvrgit said:
saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
If you lived on the "rat-run" you'd be the first to be complaining about the amount of traffic using it.
Well if it had always been a so-called rat run, then as traffic levels increase we all have to take our fair share.As per my post yesterday: if they live on it, it's a rat run and they want it closed.
If they don't live on it, it's fair fame and they complain like hell if it's closed.
As FiF said earlier, it depends who has the local councillors on their side, who are prepared to over-rule the advice of their professional officers and the police.
The lane I live on is a private road that the residents pay towards if something needs doing, say a pothole filling in. It did become quite a cut through and with it being a narrow 20mph lane, some vans and people flew down the road at mad speeds.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
-Ad- said:
The lane I live on is a private road that the residents pay towards if something needs doing, say a pothole filling in. It did become quite a cut through and with it being a narrow 20mph lane, some vans and people flew down the road at mad speeds.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
Toll booth at the end of the road with a barrier. Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
-Ad- said:
The lane I live on is a private road that the residents pay towards if something needs doing, say a pothole filling in. It did become quite a cut through and with it being a narrow 20mph lane, some vans and people flew down the road at mad speeds.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
If it is a private road, do you need a prohibition order? As has been said, just a gate would work, wouldn't it? Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
skwdenyer said:
-Ad- said:
The lane I live on is a private road that the residents pay towards if something needs doing, say a pothole filling in. It did become quite a cut through and with it being a narrow 20mph lane, some vans and people flew down the road at mad speeds.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
If it is a private road, do you need a prohibition order? As has been said, just a gate would work, wouldn't it? Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
blank said:
eldar said:
Village I live in has a similar problem. Classic rat run, 10,000 people working at one place 2 miles away, so its is interesting at start and finish times.
A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
Whereabouts do you live?A few of the residents are always banging on about 'doing something', but always fail because the ideas are either just stupid, impractical or would cost several million quid. In the end its self limiting.
Best solution locally is the local police putting up a speed trap every few months to stop the loonies racing past the school, which works for a few weeks.
I assume you're talking about Sellafield - there are a few things they've done to stop rat running. Such as strange priorities on the roundabout at Blackbeck, and traffic lights on the one at St Thomas Cross. Basically to stop people cutting through Beckermet/Egremont to get ahead of the queue.
- Streakytvrgit said:
skwdenyer said:
-Ad- said:
The lane I live on is a private road that the residents pay towards if something needs doing, say a pothole filling in. It did become quite a cut through and with it being a narrow 20mph lane, some vans and people flew down the road at mad speeds.
Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
If it is a private road, do you need a prohibition order? As has been said, just a gate would work, wouldn't it? Now there is a prohibition order in place, a metal sign at one end and I've heard sometimes the BiB waiting during the morning rush hour.
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