Are 3D Carbon Domed Registration Plates legal?
Discussion
Puff the magic.. said:
Characters on a number plate can be 3D, providing they meet all the other requirements, but honeycomb or other background patterns are not allowed.
Relates specifically to the BACKGROUND colour, as Honeycomb has a far greater reflective value.
It's used on a lot of road signs - but should not be on number plates.
There is NO definition or standard applied to BLACK in the regulations, merely a picture, so the carbon fibre look could be said to be two different shades of black.
This also applies to TSM 2008 where the picture of the red border on speed limit signs, shows a red, which is often faded on actual signs to an illegal shade.
The authorities cannot be choosy over which laws they enforce, and which they don't!
The pattern on the "black" characters is not apparent except from close up, and would present no problem to an ANPR camera.
C5RagTop said:
The type of lettering on your plate is, unfortunately, illegal. I'd guess that your plate manufacturer hasn't put their name and postcode on the plates? (another legal requirement).
Both variations sold by Halfords are perfectly legal.
All the necessary legal markings are on the plates, the spacing is all correct, the font is the correct size etc., it is just the type of lettering used that is in question. Both variations sold by Halfords are perfectly legal.
Mr2Mike said:
C5RagTop said:
The type of lettering on your plate is, unfortunately, illegal.
Can you explain why, i.e. which particular bit of legislation outlaws this style of lettering?OnTheOverrun said:
Mr2Mike said:
C5RagTop said:
The type of lettering on your plate is, unfortunately, illegal.
Can you explain why, i.e. which particular bit of legislation outlaws this style of lettering?147GTA said:
OnTheOverrun said:
Mr2Mike said:
C5RagTop said:
The type of lettering on your plate is, unfortunately, illegal.
Can you explain why, i.e. which particular bit of legislation outlaws this style of lettering?FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
Mr2Mike said:
C5RagTop said:
The type of lettering on your plate is, unfortunately, illegal.
Can you explain why, i.e. which particular bit of legislation outlaws this style of lettering?.......... Front number plates must display black characters on a white background and rear number plate must display black characters on a yellow background. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency is not aware of any self-adhesive number plates that meet the British Standard requirements. Characters on a number plate can be 3D, providing they meet all the other requirements, but honeycomb or other background patterns are not allowed................
The 3D referred to is the type sold at Halfords. The DVLA doesn't mention or allow carbon fibre effect whether they stand proud of the number plate or not. If you try to order any carbon fibre digits from any number plate supplier, the will be classified as show plates.
147GTA - as your plates have the correct markings and as the manufacturer stated that they are illegal, then you should have some form of recourse against them. However, I'm not aware if the current DVLA requirements are retrospective or not which may have some bearing on your position.
Edited by C5RagTop on Sunday 9th May 19:24
147GTA said:
warned me about losing the private plate and being issued with a Q plate by the DVLA next time
A handy way to recognise an arse, as compared to an elbow, is the ratio of 1:2 on a standard person.You would be given 3 strikes before a private plate is revoked, and then you'd fall back to your original numberplate.
OnTheOverrun said:
I've no idea - when I went to Halfords this morning to get some tar spot remover they hadn't got any similar domed CF plates on offer at my local one.
FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
It's just two different shades of black. Nothing in the reg.s says anything against this, just the prohibition of a patterned BACKGROUND.FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
Nothing in the reg.s says 3D EFFECT, just 3D, so they don't fall down on that either.
Mill Wheel said:
OnTheOverrun said:
I've no idea - when I went to Halfords this morning to get some tar spot remover they hadn't got any similar domed CF plates on offer at my local one.
FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
It's just two different shades of black. Nothing in the reg.s says anything against this, just the prohibition of a patterned BACKGROUND.FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
Nothing in the reg.s says 3D EFFECT, just 3D, so they don't fall down on that either.
The 3D variation allowed is a specific one as shown elsewhere on this thread, not a general acceptance of 3D characters.
All of the plate manufacturers I've googled agree that these 3D domed plates are show only. If you can find a plate manufacturer that states they are road legal, I'd be happy to view the link.
Mill Wheel said:
OnTheOverrun said:
I've no idea - when I went to Halfords this morning to get some tar spot remover they hadn't got any similar domed CF plates on offer at my local one.
FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
It's just two different shades of black. Nothing in the reg.s says anything against this, just the prohibition of a patterned BACKGROUND.FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
Nothing in the reg.s says 3D EFFECT, just 3D, so they don't fall down on that either.
Thanks for the responses so far guys.
147GTA said:
Mill Wheel said:
OnTheOverrun said:
I've no idea - when I went to Halfords this morning to get some tar spot remover they hadn't got any similar domed CF plates on offer at my local one.
FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
It's just two different shades of black. Nothing in the reg.s says anything against this, just the prohibition of a patterned BACKGROUND.FWIW, I personally don't have a problem with your plates, but I can see why having stripes where they should just be black according to the regs could be construed as not adhering to the letter of the law but I would've thought a warning to change them rather than a £60 fine might be more appropriate. Better to save the fines for people actually trying to make their numbers look like something else IMHO.
Nothing in the reg.s says 3D EFFECT, just 3D, so they don't fall down on that either.
Thanks for the responses so far guys.
OnTheOverrun said:
All of the plate manufacturers I've googled agree that these 3D domed plates are show only. If you can find a plate manufacturer that states they are road legal, I'd be happy to view the link.
Demon Plates:http://www.demonplates.com/about.php#nogo
The last paragraph on "Text Styles" states "...As well as offering the usual "flat" text style in the Manadatory font, Demon plates also offers 3 other, completely legal, text styles..."
ajstephe said:
I don't understand why people want to alter the standard plate on the car to 3d ones or different spaced ones. It draws attention (wanted or unwanted) to yourself and the car and can result in a tug from the bib and a fine.
My advice to motorists is just leave it as standard
The car needed new plates made up for the private registration that was purchased for the car, so the standard plates were not just modified for cosmetic reasons. A 147 GTA is not a car that "blends" in sadly so there's been plenty of tugs but there's never been a problem in the past and not once has the plate ever been questioned!My advice to motorists is just leave it as standard
147GTA said:
OnTheOverrun said:
All of the plate manufacturers I've googled agree that these 3D domed plates are show only. If you can find a plate manufacturer that states they are road legal, I'd be happy to view the link.
Demon Plates:http://www.demonplates.com/about.php#nogo
The last paragraph on "Text Styles" states "...As well as offering the usual "flat" text style in the Manadatory font, Demon plates also offers 3 other, completely legal, text styles..."
Raised lettering apparently on pre 1973 only.
147GTA said:
OnTheOverrun said:
All of the plate manufacturers I've googled agree that these 3D domed plates are show only. If you can find a plate manufacturer that states they are road legal, I'd be happy to view the link.
Demon Plates:http://www.demonplates.com/about.php#nogo
The last paragraph on "Text Styles" states "...As well as offering the usual "flat" text style in the Manadatory font, Demon plates also offers 3 other, completely legal, text styles..."
I suspect they are wrong and should pay your fine for you!
It is interesting that patterned backgrounds are specifically mentioned and forbidden, while patterned lettering is not. And neither it seems is domed lettering specifically excluded.
Any graphics student knows that there are lots of different blacks, since the only TRUE black is a complete absence of light! It seems the legislation overlooked this fact!
Just google Pantone Black, and skim through the various results!
Earlier I gave an example of road signs, where the manual gives no specific standard of colour reproduction, but instead shows a picture. TSM 2008 states that departure from the manual could make the signs invalid - but clearly many councils are not bothered by this in the slightest - so I would be guided by that interpretation of the law in this case too if it LOOKS black (patterned or not) then it IS black.
Any graphics student knows that there are lots of different blacks, since the only TRUE black is a complete absence of light! It seems the legislation overlooked this fact!
Just google Pantone Black, and skim through the various results!
Earlier I gave an example of road signs, where the manual gives no specific standard of colour reproduction, but instead shows a picture. TSM 2008 states that departure from the manual could make the signs invalid - but clearly many councils are not bothered by this in the slightest - so I would be guided by that interpretation of the law in this case too if it LOOKS black (patterned or not) then it IS black.
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