The Nazis want some extra tax from me

[rypt]

So, I usually park in a housing area near where I do some part time work. It is supposed to be "private estate" with some pikey "no parking" sign, but this is not of course legally endorsable so no chance of getting clamped etc.
Some decided to super glue a "DO NOT PARK HERE, blah blah blah" notice to my windscreen (a fking bh to remove I may add).
So there I am ripping bits of the notice off, when a PCSO turns up in a car (I didn't see him). Apparently a few bits of the notice that I was ripping off my windscreen had fallen to the ground ... cue him giving me a FPN. Naturally, him being a PCSO means that I refuse to tell him my name and tell him I will tell it to a uniformed officer on production of his ID/warrant card. His mate gets out of the car and says that he is a police officer and shows me some ID (that simply said "employee of Thames Valley Police" or something similar - but he is plain clothes). I still ask for a uniformed officer, and the plain clothes chappy seems happy enough to oblige and calls in for another officer.
So a clothed officer now arrives on a bicycle, but is refusing to show me any ID and simply says "I'm wearing the correct clothes, and look it has a number on my vest". While I'm trying to get the guy to show me some ID (and him threatening to arrest me under everything from Section 20 PACE (isn't this seizure of computerised materials?), to anti-terror laws) another 2 cops in a proper car show up, and seem happy enough to show me their ID.
Cue me giving them my details and getting my FPN...


So firstly, is there any way I can get out of the FPN ("Section 87/88 Environment Protection Act 1990") ... I don't really fancy the local Nazi scum £55 (which is almost the amount of money I earned today :/)

Secondly, anyone know of an easy way to remove paper notices that get stuck to your car with some bhing glue (I spent ages using nails and wiper fluid to remove it). It is the only place I can park that is within walking distance of where I work, public transport is not an option due to the time it would take, the work place has no parking provision, and the person sticking these notices on is a local so is likely to do it to me again

Thirdly, what is it with officers refusing to show proper ID. I told the guy, you show me your ID and I will gladly tell you who I am and so on...

And fourthly, am I right about Section 20 of PACE being about computers, and as such should I file a complaint about the officer being a retard :/

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:24

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:29

[Milky Joe]

[rypt]

Milky Joe said:

It's £55 that I DO NOT want to spend

[BDZ]

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes. I also suspect he meant s.25 PACE not s.20.

You could always plea not guilty to the FPN and have a trial but of course not 100% guaranteed to get you off.

[chr15b]

Milky Joe said:

+1

it's one thing getting an 'invoice' when there are some daft small signs on a private carpark at a shopping centre but to park in a private place when you know you shouldnt is just plain rude and selfish.

it's extremely annoying when you cant park or manouver around your own home because of selfish people

your actions were deliberate then to top it all off you behave like a child - the smiley from the previous post sums it up.

[rypt]

chr15b said:

Milky Joe said:

+1

it's one thing getting an 'invoice' when there are some daft small signs on a private carpark at a shopping centre but to park in a private place when you know you shouldnt is just plain rude and selfish.

it's extremely annoying when you cant park or manouver around your own home because of selfish people

your actions were deliberate then to top it all off you behave like a child - the smiley from the previous post sums it up.

It is a whole road that is marked as private, it is wide enough for 2 cars and me and a few other people parking there does not obstruct anyone. The fact that the road is owned by the people who run the apartments is neither here nor there, they have no legal enforcement on that road for no parking.
It is NOT my fault that it is the ONLY place to park for a day, as everything else is 1 or 2 hour, or permit parking only. Blame the retards that are the council for that.

EDIT:

It is this whole road on the left
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxford&ie=UTF8...
And as you can see there are a few cars parked at the top of it

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:42

[TheEnd]

rypt said:

should I file a complaint about the officer being a retard :/

oh yes, but don't tell us the outcome.

[rypt]

TheEnd said:

rypt said:

should I file a complaint about the officer being a retard :/

oh yes, but don't tell us the outcome.

Hey, at least I know what Section of PACE he can and can't arrest me under ...
Then again, the PCSO didn't know under what powers he could issue me a notice, and had to radio it in to ask and be told that he's issuing it under local by-laws, and that it says on the back of the FPN under what act the offence was.

[herewego]

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

[Crazy Torque]

Is it the same crime littering in a public place, as opposed to littering on someone elses property like in your case?

[ewenm]

You should have called the police for the criminal damage to your car... if you're sure that parking on private land isn't illegal...

A nice polite "Oh hello Mr PCSO, I'd like to report vandalism to my car", however it sounds from your post that you had a different attitude to the PCSO. Not surprised you couldn't talk your way out of a FPN for littering.

Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 26th May 18:56

[rypt]

herewego said:

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

The fact that there is a sign on a lamp post saying "Private housing estate, ps off" has no legal ramification
The road is STILL a public highway (hence why PCSO can even try to fine you as it is not private land), there is no gate or anything, as such normal rules of the road apply. If you do not want parking then you need to have the SAME double yellow lines on the estate as the council have on other parts of the roads near by.
If you do not want people parking then you need to have signs to that effect, that are legal under whatever regulations there are and are enforced as such.

[Crazy Torque]

Didn't you mention the 'vandalism' to your car?

Typical - punish the victim for being a victim of a criminal, usual standard procedure.

[FishFace]

Scoring minus a million on the attitude test = FPN.

[Parrot of Doom]

The parking issue aside, I'm glad you were fined for littering. From the tone of your post I'm not surprised you were done, you sound like a mouthy little cockbag.

Apologies if you're not.

[rypt]

FishFace said:

Scoring minus a million on the attitude test = FPN.

He was already attempting to issue me an FPN before he got the attitude, the attitude was as a result of the FPN.

[chr15b]

rypt said:

herewego said:

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

The fact that there is a sign on a lamp post saying "Private housing estate, ps off" has no legal ramification
The road is STILL a public highway (hence why PCSO can even try to fine you as it is not private land), there is no gate or anything, as such normal rules of the road apply. If you do not want parking then you need to have the SAME double yellow lines on the estate as the council have on other parts of the roads near by.
If you do not want people parking then you need to have signs to that effect, that are legal under whatever regulations there are and are enforced as such.

you know you're not welcome there yet you still park. it's not your fault there is no local free parking, it's also not the residents fault either. trust me.

call the ticket for littering karma

[T_Pot]

You handled that well...

[rypt]

chr15b said:

rypt said:

herewego said:

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

The fact that there is a sign on a lamp post saying "Private housing estate, ps off" has no legal ramification
The road is STILL a public highway (hence why PCSO can even try to fine you as it is not private land), there is no gate or anything, as such normal rules of the road apply. If you do not want parking then you need to have the SAME double yellow lines on the estate as the council have on other parts of the roads near by.
If you do not want people parking then you need to have signs to that effect, that are legal under whatever regulations there are and are enforced as such.

you know you're not welcome there yet you still park. it's not your fault there is no local free parking, it's also not the residents fault either. trust me.

It doesn't matter if I'm welcome or not there, I'm not obstructing anyone, and it is perfectly legal to park there.
I do not like my neighbour parking his car on the road where I live, but I have no legal right to stop him doing that or to stick stuff to his car.

There is NO WHERE else to park that is free and within walking distance of the work place ... do you want me to catch a 90min bus ride, or drive there in 20 min?

T_Pot said:

You handled that well...

I was impressed with the turn out, 1 cop car with 2 full clothed cops, a cop on a bicycle, a non-unformed "employee" (it wasn't a warrant card that he showed me) of the police and a PCSO.

BDZ said:

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes.

The plain clothes guy's ID simply said he was employed by Thames Valley Police, it was not a proper warrant card.
And why should he not show me his ID, how do I know he is a real cop and not someone who bought a £5 ebay?

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:02

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:04

[Pothole]

looks like there is a free car park neaby http://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/uk/oxford/ 4 hours max, but then you could just drive out and back in again at lunchtime