Nice letter to the DVLA?
Discussion
I would advise against putting in any phrases such as "still liable to pay" as that may be taken as acceptance. Keep it short - really short and simple. Do not acknowledge any debt or fine, simply point out that you have complied with the law & precedents and that the matter is, therefore, closed.
s.m.h. said:
Pay it and put it down to experience.
As I posted months ago, I was fined for one of their offices losing my change of owner slip (to a dealer) and failing to remind them they had not informed me.
Mine was £80, I spent hours writing letters till I could get no higher in the DVLA.
They eventually said as a goodwill gesture they would take £40 (if thats not admitting guilt what is) so rather than waste any more time I just paid it. Now I make sure the paperwork is right.
Horrid incompetent money grabbing pencil pushers.
They f@ck up and we still pay for it.
A total of £10,000,000 was paid to the DVLA in SORN fines last year the bit that's bugging me is they are judge jury and executioner and I have been found guilty until I can prove myself innocent. As I posted months ago, I was fined for one of their offices losing my change of owner slip (to a dealer) and failing to remind them they had not informed me.
Mine was £80, I spent hours writing letters till I could get no higher in the DVLA.
They eventually said as a goodwill gesture they would take £40 (if thats not admitting guilt what is) so rather than waste any more time I just paid it. Now I make sure the paperwork is right.
Horrid incompetent money grabbing pencil pushers.
They f@ck up and we still pay for it.
It's unethical, unconstitutional and (probably) illegal. When they have no power to to do this in the first place. I'll wipe my backside on the cheque before I ever consider sending one.
Ive still got the letters in reply from the bint that reviews each case.
Once they have their teeth into you they will not let go until they have had their pound of flesh. They will get something out of you, be it now or later!
Dont forget this is not an independent company its a government department. As much as it pained me, the time and effort claiming innocence I was wasting far exceeded the cost of the fine.
Once they have their teeth into you they will not let go until they have had their pound of flesh. They will get something out of you, be it now or later!
Dont forget this is not an independent company its a government department. As much as it pained me, the time and effort claiming innocence I was wasting far exceeded the cost of the fine.
[quote=Liquid Knight]Dear whoever;
I’m writing in reference to my alleged failure to make a SORN declaration to the DVLA for my MGB GT registration Blah-blah in reply to a threatening letter I received from your office with the reference number “Number-Blah-blah”.
I have been imposed a fine for failing to declare the vehicle as SORN despite the fact I sent the V5 registration document off to the DVLA when I disposed of the vehicle in full accordance to the law over a year ago.
I fail to see how it is my responsibility to ensure a first class stamped letter reaches the DVLA once it has entered the postal system or the DVLA failing to file the paperwork correctly upon receipt. As soon as I put the letter in the post box it became the property and sole responsibility of the Royal Mail. If or when it arrived at the DVLA it became the DVLA property and therefore responsability. As for the suggestion that it is up to me to pursue the DVLA if I have not received a “Change of ownership” letter from the organisation within four weeks of sending the V5 registration document off. “The DVLA have no statutory power requiring anyone to ring them or otherwise respond should they not receive an acknowledgment letter” DVLA v's Peck October 2009.
There is no legal requirement to send letters and declarations to the DVLA by recorded delivery. I am however happy to appear as a witness on the behalf of the DVLA if you wish to pursue the Royal Mail for failing to deliver it on this occaision. That is of course if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Royal Mail failed to deliver the document to the DVLA and the DVLA did not lose the document internally or misfile it.
I hope this is an end to the matter.
Yours sincerely;
Me
Draft 3
I’m writing in reference to my alleged failure to make a SORN declaration to the DVLA for my MGB GT registration Blah-blah in reply to a threatening letter I received from your office with the reference number “Number-Blah-blah”.
I have been imposed a fine for failing to declare the vehicle as SORN despite the fact I sent the V5 registration document off to the DVLA when I disposed of the vehicle in full accordance to the law over a year ago.
I fail to see how it is my responsibility to ensure a first class stamped letter reaches the DVLA once it has entered the postal system or the DVLA failing to file the paperwork correctly upon receipt. As soon as I put the letter in the post box it became the property and sole responsibility of the Royal Mail. If or when it arrived at the DVLA it became the DVLA property and therefore responsability. As for the suggestion that it is up to me to pursue the DVLA if I have not received a “Change of ownership” letter from the organisation within four weeks of sending the V5 registration document off. “The DVLA have no statutory power requiring anyone to ring them or otherwise respond should they not receive an acknowledgment letter” DVLA v's Peck October 2009.
There is no legal requirement to send letters and declarations to the DVLA by recorded delivery. I am however happy to appear as a witness on the behalf of the DVLA if you wish to pursue the Royal Mail for failing to deliver it on this occaision. That is of course if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Royal Mail failed to deliver the document to the DVLA and the DVLA did not lose the document internally or misfile it.
I hope this is an end to the matter.
Yours sincerely;
Me
Draft 3
Liquid Knight said:
Liquid Knight said:
Dear Sir,
I write concerning my alleged failure to make a SORN declaration for my MGB GT registration Blah-blah and in response to your letter of (date), reference number “Number-Blah-blah”.
I sent the V5 registration document off to the DVLA when I disposed of the vehicle in full accordance to the law over a year ago. I can only conclude that the V5c went missing either in transit to the DVLA or else was lost or not actioned within the DVLA.
As you are no doubt aware, there is no legal requirement to send letters and declarations to the DVLA by recorded delivery. I am however happy to appear as a witness on the behalf of the DVLA if you wish to pursue the Royal Mail for failing to deliver it on this occaision. That is of course if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Royal Mail failed to deliver the document to the DVLA and you did not lose the document internally or misfile it.
I trust this both clarifies and concludes matters. Any liability on my behalf is denied.
Yours faithfully,
Me
Draft 3
I write concerning my alleged failure to make a SORN declaration for my MGB GT registration Blah-blah and in response to your letter of (date), reference number “Number-Blah-blah”.
I sent the V5 registration document off to the DVLA when I disposed of the vehicle in full accordance to the law over a year ago. I can only conclude that the V5c went missing either in transit to the DVLA or else was lost or not actioned within the DVLA.
As you are no doubt aware, there is no legal requirement to send letters and declarations to the DVLA by recorded delivery. I am however happy to appear as a witness on the behalf of the DVLA if you wish to pursue the Royal Mail for failing to deliver it on this occaision. That is of course if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Royal Mail failed to deliver the document to the DVLA and you did not lose the document internally or misfile it.
I trust this both clarifies and concludes matters. Any liability on my behalf is denied.
Yours faithfully,
Me
Draft 3
Edited by TomJS on Sunday 22 August 18:20
Oh bugger here is one i wrote some years ago, not as expert as some of yours but I did get the matter dropped and a letter to prove they gave up.
20th July 20, 2005
REF: Vxxx Dxx
To whom it may concern,
Thank you for your letter dated the 4th June 2005, which didn’t arrive in my letterbox until this morning, so over a month to get here.
I filled out the little slip (Notification of Sale/Transfer to the Motor Trade V5C3) that was given back to me by the garage I sold the car to and then posted it onward to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1BD, as I have done with each car I have sold, the garage even stamped their name and address onto it as I recall. So when I came to Tax my new car the nice lady in the post office sold me and envelope to post that slip on to them.
After checking my new cars registration details I cannot see anywhere on that form that I must post it by secure mail or indeed track the envelope to see if the ROYAL MAIL have once again surprised me and actually delivered something I posted, and as you can see they took over a month to deliver your letter to me.
The complaints to the post office are endless they can however seem to deliver mail just to the wrong street, growing concern to all local residents.
I have spoken with the garage and they informed me that they sent the tax disc back for a refund, surely someone in the DVLA could put 2 and 2 together as they issued a refund to a car dealer that maybe just maybe I have sold the vehicle to them.
So where do we go from here because I cannot and will not be held liable for the shortcomings of our postal service
I did what I was asked and posted the slip what more could I have or should have done?
20th July 20, 2005
REF: Vxxx Dxx
To whom it may concern,
Thank you for your letter dated the 4th June 2005, which didn’t arrive in my letterbox until this morning, so over a month to get here.
I filled out the little slip (Notification of Sale/Transfer to the Motor Trade V5C3) that was given back to me by the garage I sold the car to and then posted it onward to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1BD, as I have done with each car I have sold, the garage even stamped their name and address onto it as I recall. So when I came to Tax my new car the nice lady in the post office sold me and envelope to post that slip on to them.
After checking my new cars registration details I cannot see anywhere on that form that I must post it by secure mail or indeed track the envelope to see if the ROYAL MAIL have once again surprised me and actually delivered something I posted, and as you can see they took over a month to deliver your letter to me.
The complaints to the post office are endless they can however seem to deliver mail just to the wrong street, growing concern to all local residents.
I have spoken with the garage and they informed me that they sent the tax disc back for a refund, surely someone in the DVLA could put 2 and 2 together as they issued a refund to a car dealer that maybe just maybe I have sold the vehicle to them.
So where do we go from here because I cannot and will not be held liable for the shortcomings of our postal service
I did what I was asked and posted the slip what more could I have or should have done?
Edited by Allanv on Sunday 22 August 18:33
Mine didnt even have the post office involved, it was hand delivered to one of the clerks while I changed the taxation class of the replacement vehicle! I gave them the date, place and time I was there but still would not back down. Im not sure that the post above from 05 is still a valid excuse - they take few prisoners.
Their argument is that its the sellers responsibility to chase them for the paperwork, not to see if the PO have lost something else.
Though if you do manage to get out of paying it I will be (pleasantly) suprised!
Their argument is that its the sellers responsibility to chase them for the paperwork, not to see if the PO have lost something else.
Though if you do manage to get out of paying it I will be (pleasantly) suprised!
Your best chance is to take it up with your MP.
DVLA are inventing new rules which are treated as law by them, that is the job of the MPs. These rules must be open to scrutiny.
If every one of these cases of DVLA bullying went to everybody's local MP then something would soon get done about it.
Until then your MP might get it dropped.
Russ
DVLA are inventing new rules which are treated as law by them, that is the job of the MPs. These rules must be open to scrutiny.
If every one of these cases of DVLA bullying went to everybody's local MP then something would soon get done about it.
Until then your MP might get it dropped.
Russ
Hedders said:
You scrapped an MGB GT?
I had to because the neghbours had complained to the council about it and we were threatened with eviction if I didn't sell or scrap the car within seven days. Was a lovely car before I was banned for two months and couldn't afford to insure it when I got my licence back. My intention was to restore the car while I waited to get some no claims and stuff. The car was at the fully stripped ready to cut the cills off stage so wasn't really sellable. Gave the car to the MGB Hive and they said to send it off as scrap because she was a rubber bumper one and would only be used as parts.
Liquid Knight said:
Hedders said:
You scrapped an MGB GT?
I had to because the neghbours had complained to the council about it and we were threatened with eviction if I didn't sell or scrap the car within seven days. Was a lovely car before I was banned for two months and couldn't afford to insure it when I got my licence back. My intention was to restore the car while I waited to get some no claims and stuff. The car was at the fully stripped ready to cut the cills off stage so wasn't really sellable. Gave the car to the MGB Hive and they said to send it off as scrap because she was a rubber bumper one and would only be used as parts.
One day i will live in the kind of place where my neighbours can't see how many cars i have rotting away..
I personally think Pistonheads should have a thread dedicated solely to DVLA. Let's face it there would be thousands of posts!
As for the person who said put it down to experience and cough up, oh dear. Why do you think DVLA employ the tactics they do?
I always send DVLA stuff (if important) using a Certificate of Posting ('free' at all POs) or if more important then Recorded Delivery.
Idiots even lost my historics logbook - first they said it hadn't arrived, but confessed the moment I told them the exact time it was delivered to them and 'signed for' by them!
They then said 'sorry but we have lost it, sometimes this happens - we receive vast amounts of post and we are not under any obligation to return anything (thanks!! - why tell everyone the opposite then?) but we can supply you with a photocopy if you like?'
'Huh? I thought you said you'd lost it?'
'We have, but we can still supply you with a photocopy of your document.'
'But I wanted the original returned, not a bloody photocopy!'
GIVE UP!
As for the person who said put it down to experience and cough up, oh dear. Why do you think DVLA employ the tactics they do?
I always send DVLA stuff (if important) using a Certificate of Posting ('free' at all POs) or if more important then Recorded Delivery.
Idiots even lost my historics logbook - first they said it hadn't arrived, but confessed the moment I told them the exact time it was delivered to them and 'signed for' by them!
They then said 'sorry but we have lost it, sometimes this happens - we receive vast amounts of post and we are not under any obligation to return anything (thanks!! - why tell everyone the opposite then?) but we can supply you with a photocopy if you like?'
'Huh? I thought you said you'd lost it?'
'We have, but we can still supply you with a photocopy of your document.'
'But I wanted the original returned, not a bloody photocopy!'
GIVE UP!
PaulHogan said:
I'd be tempted to get £40 worth of mixed coins from the bank, mix it together in a biscuit tin and send it by recorded delivery.
Recorded Delivery is no good for valuables or money, won't get compensated. Have to use Special Delivery.It would be worth it though!
Personally, I'd send 4,000 pennies.
Wonder what that would weigh?
Bet they'd refuse it... and then you'd get a nice spread of bad publicity for this rubbish government dept in one of the tabloids: DVLA refused to take my hard-earned cash!
dandarez said:
PaulHogan said:
I'd be tempted to get £40 worth of mixed coins from the bank, mix it together in a biscuit tin and send it by recorded delivery.
Recorded Delivery is no good for valuables or money, won't get compensated. Have to use Special Delivery.It would be worth it though!
Personally, I'd send 4,000 pennies.
Wonder what that would weigh?
Bet they'd refuse it... and then you'd get a nice spread of bad publicity for this rubbish government dept in one of the tabloids: DVLA refused to take my hard-earned cash!
And for the first time in many a long day they would be right! Who would have thought it.....
dandarez said:
I personally think Pistonheads should have a thread dedicated solely to DVLA. Let's face it there would be thousands of posts!
As for the person who said put it down to experience and cough up, oh dear. Why do you think DVLA employ the tactics they do?
I always send DVLA stuff (if important) using a Certificate of Posting ('free' at all POs) or if more important then Recorded Delivery.
Idiots even lost my historics logbook - first they said it hadn't arrived, but confessed the moment I told them the exact time it was delivered to them and 'signed for' by them!
They then said 'sorry but we have lost it, sometimes this happens - we receive vast amounts of post and we are not under any obligation to return anything (thanks!! - why tell everyone the opposite then?) but we can supply you with a photocopy if you like?'
'Huh? I thought you said you'd lost it?'
'We have, but we can still supply you with a photocopy of your document.'
'But I wanted the original returned, not a bloody photocopy!'
GIVE UP!
I suggested pay the £40, only because you will waste far more time and effort trying to defend yourself against a machine that does not see reason or use common sence. I wrote 3 or 4 letters all to no avail. As for the person who said put it down to experience and cough up, oh dear. Why do you think DVLA employ the tactics they do?
I always send DVLA stuff (if important) using a Certificate of Posting ('free' at all POs) or if more important then Recorded Delivery.
Idiots even lost my historics logbook - first they said it hadn't arrived, but confessed the moment I told them the exact time it was delivered to them and 'signed for' by them!
They then said 'sorry but we have lost it, sometimes this happens - we receive vast amounts of post and we are not under any obligation to return anything (thanks!! - why tell everyone the opposite then?) but we can supply you with a photocopy if you like?'
'Huh? I thought you said you'd lost it?'
'We have, but we can still supply you with a photocopy of your document.'
'But I wanted the original returned, not a bloody photocopy!'
GIVE UP!
How about sending them a cheque for £40.01 and send letter from a Bailiff the same day demanding a Penny plus £80 handling fee?
There's no facility to accept payment by instalments. So no mittigation if you can't afford to pay £40 or £80 in one go. I'll add that to the guilty until proven innocent slap in lady justices face.
The 4000 cheques for a Penny each is out then.
The administrational cost of sending recorded or special delivery to the DVLA makes it impracticable. So how about we all send the DVLA a nondemoninational seasonal greetings card (can you tell I used to work for the pollitical corectness department) to be delivered on Monday December 20th by Special delivery (would cost about 90p and a card) but insist that it signed for individually? Get the Royal Mail and the DVLA in one hit!
There's no facility to accept payment by instalments. So no mittigation if you can't afford to pay £40 or £80 in one go. I'll add that to the guilty until proven innocent slap in lady justices face.
The 4000 cheques for a Penny each is out then.
The administrational cost of sending recorded or special delivery to the DVLA makes it impracticable. So how about we all send the DVLA a nondemoninational seasonal greetings card (can you tell I used to work for the pollitical corectness department) to be delivered on Monday December 20th by Special delivery (would cost about 90p and a card) but insist that it signed for individually? Get the Royal Mail and the DVLA in one hit!
Edited by Liquid Knight on Monday 23 August 10:37
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