Car broken into - Insurance claim rejected.

Car broken into - Insurance claim rejected.

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davemac250

Original Poster:

4,499 posts

204 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
After some opinions.

We had our car broken into. (Broad daylight, Lowndes Square as I checked into accommodation - all done in 15-20 minute window)

Method unknown - when I returned to the car it was locked and undamaged. The car self locks.

Several other cars had also been opened and contents stolen. (All high end German stuff - Beware VAG, VMW and Porsche owners reading this)

All undamaged. All locked on the owners return.

The insurance company have rejected the claim because - and I quote

any loss, theft of, or damage to Personal Baggage left in an Unattended motor vehicle if:

– the items concerned have not been locked out of sight in a Secure Baggage Area;

– no forcible and violent means have been used by an unauthorised person to affect entry into the vehicle; and

– no evidence of such entry is available.

So, the items were locked and out of sight - they were in the boot.

I argue violence and force were used in the form of a device unknown against the remote locking system. At no point do the T&C's state damage must be caused.

Evidence is available from the state of the interior of the ransacked car, the police reports, witness reports from other victims and the fact all our bloody stuff was missing!

Worth fighting? Or should I have chucked a brick through the window at the time?

Total claim high side of €8,000. (There was a weeks luggage in the car along with a new laptop, dress watches, cocktails outfits etc etc)


ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
How were the cars broken into if they were locked and no Damage?, Have the thieves used cloned keys?.

Edited by ZOLLAR on Monday 29th November 11:58

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
there was a watchdog thing about this not too long ago
crooks have frequency scanners now, so you lock you car, and the scanners pick up the communication, they then unlock your car and run off laughing frown

streaky

19,311 posts

248 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
In general, "forcible entry" is the act of entering using destructive methods, i.e., damage is thereby caused.

Insurers use this clause when there is no evidence of such entry and the assumption is that the insured left the premises/vehicle unlocked.

I suggest reiterating the facts, including those of other vehicles nearby 'broken into' in similar manner, and citing the 'evidence' of cloned/captured electronic keys (as mentioned above).

Given enough pressure you might make some positive progress. The Financial Ombudsman Service is a potential, later port of call.

Streaky

PS - see here, and many similar - S

Edited by streaky on Monday 29th November 12:15

davemac250

Original Poster:

4,499 posts

204 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Cheers Streaky.

I recall our Crime Prevention bod opening the Supers car years ago with a TV all-4-1 remote.

I had hoped things had moved on.

My VAG dealer is adamant this couldn't happen. My very friendly BMW guy says it does - but only unofficially.

My main support, I guess, is that the bloody thing self locks, and was locked (witness to this was one of the other victims) on my return.

Has any current BiB caught anyone with one of these scanners? That would add weight to the argument as well.


singlecoil

33,216 posts

245 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Since locks were first invented criminals have been finding ways of getting past them. The whole point of a lock is convenience, the idea is that by using a piece of technology you can secure your goods and chattels against villains, without being there yourself. Problem is, the villains then find a way of overcoming the lock, and so lock makers have to do better. Bit like an arms race.

The issue here is whether or not the insurers can be made to pay up, and I'm guessing no.

mmm-five

11,217 posts

283 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Even if they do agree to pay out, does your policy cover £8000 worth of 'personal effects'?

You may find you're only covered for £500 worth and have half of that gone in your excess.

davemac250

Original Poster:

4,499 posts

204 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
Even if they do agree to pay out, does your policy cover £8000 worth of 'personal effects'?

You may find you're only covered for £500 worth and have half of that gone in your excess.
€2,000 max payout.

Better that than nowt.


SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
i think i could be convinced to break into a car if it had £8000 sitting on the passenger seat!! lol

davemac250

Original Poster:

4,499 posts

204 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
i think i could be convinced to break into a car if it had £8000 sitting on the passenger seat!! lol
I bet they couldn't believe it when they opened my old sports holdall to find a couple of sets of Mont blanc cuff links and a Rado Jubilee watch. Came to well over half the amount.

Luckily the OH had chucked her jewellery into her handbag to get cleaned so they missed that.

The brand new - as in not 30 minutes old Laptop didn't help matters either.

That was in the spare wheel well.

davidjpowell

17,753 posts

183 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
I would not bet that they would be celebrating.

Some dunt broke into my then Volvo estate a few years ago. We'd gone for a walk and my partner had hid her fairly expensive handbag under coats / baby crap in the boot.

Came back to a scratched window (hope the brick hit him in the face when it bounced..) and a smashed rear window, no handbag. As is happened she was due a visit to the cash machine, so had about 20p in her purse.

After getting house locks changed, etc. the insurance company paid out and we moved on.

Six months later someone stopped to let their dog have a toilet break, just off the A1. Dog found the handbag. Silly twunt had thrown a £500 handbag in the bushes. Sadly it was the worse for where, with holes where some animal had chewed their way out.

Don't give the thieves any credit. Probably do not realise the value of these things.

madala

5,063 posts

197 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
fight...fight...fight...the thieving insurance b'stards....it's time something was done about the way insurance companies try and rip off punters....they are SCUM....worse that any banker, laywer, or estate agent.

Hottubharry

14 posts

161 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
madala said:
fight...fight...fight...the thieving insurance b'stards....it's time something was done about the way insurance companies try and rip off punters....they are SCUM....worse that any banker, laywer, or estate agent.
Hear, hear.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Hottubharry said:
madala said:
fight...fight...fight...the thieving insurance b'stards....it's time something was done about the way insurance companies try and rip off punters....they are SCUM....worse that any banker, laywer, or estate agent.
Hear, hear.
All i hear is people moaning..

streaky

19,311 posts

248 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
ZOLLAR said:
Hottubharry said:
madala said:
fight...fight...fight...the thieving insurance b'stards....it's time something was done about the way insurance companies try and rip off punters....they are SCUM....worse that any banker, laywer, or estate agent.
Hear, hear.
All i hear is people moaning..
Well, if you will live over a house of ill-repute ... wink - Streaky

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
streaky said:
ZOLLAR said:
Hottubharry said:
madala said:
fight...fight...fight...the thieving insurance b'stards....it's time something was done about the way insurance companies try and rip off punters....they are SCUM....worse that any banker, laywer, or estate agent.
Hear, hear.
All i hear is people moaning..
Well, if you will live over a house of ill-repute ... wink - Streaky

Deva Link

26,934 posts

244 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
davemac250 said:
I bet they couldn't believe it when they opened my old sports holdall to find a couple of sets of Mont blanc cuff links and a Rado Jubilee watch. Came to well over half the amount.

Luckily the OH had chucked her jewellery into her handbag to get cleaned so they missed that.

The brand new - as in not 30 minutes old Laptop didn't help matters either.

That was in the spare wheel well.
You didn't put the laptop in the boot immediately before leaving the car, did you?

Have you tried speaking to your house contents insurance company?

How did you pay for the laptop? Some credit cards cover theft for a short period after purchase.

davemac250

Original Poster:

4,499 posts

204 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Deva Link said:
davemac250 said:
I bet they couldn't believe it when they opened my old sports holdall to find a couple of sets of Mont blanc cuff links and a Rado Jubilee watch. Came to well over half the amount.

Luckily the OH had chucked her jewellery into her handbag to get cleaned so they missed that.

The brand new - as in not 30 minutes old Laptop didn't help matters either.

That was in the spare wheel well.
You didn't put the laptop in the boot immediately before leaving the car, did you?

Have you tried speaking to your house contents insurance company?

How did you pay for the laptop? Some credit cards cover theft for a short period after purchase.
No, not where it was broken into, and I wasn't followed - last one through a couple of sets of lights.

To make matters worse, this is holiday insurance.

Neither house or car insurance covered it as the claim was outside of Luxembourg. They have both stated that they would have paid in these circumstances if it had happened in Lux. And for the full amount, not a capped limit.

I paid by credit card, a Luxembourg based one that does not offer anything like this, first thing I tried.

The car wasn't targeted, I have a feeling the one next to mine was - he lost even more and had taken a load of clothes from Harvey Nichols back to his car moments before. I suspect mine opened first and they had a look to see what was worth taking.


Plotloss

67,280 posts

269 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
davemac250 said:
I recall our Crime Prevention bod opening the Supers car years ago with a TV all-4-1 remote.

I had hoped things had moved on.
The only way that would be possible is if the remote was IR based.

Modern stuff isn't, it's RF based and the rolling code system has for many years been relatively fool proof.

Seems there is a new bit of kit on the market.

streaky

19,311 posts

248 months

Monday 29th November 2010
quotequote all
Plotloss said:
davemac250 said:
I recall our Crime Prevention bod opening the Supers car years ago with a TV all-4-1 remote.

I had hoped things had moved on.
The only way that would be possible is if the remote was IR based.

Modern stuff isn't, it's RF based and the rolling code system has for many years been relatively fool proof.

Seems there is a new bit of kit on the market.
If the algorithm is known and one key in the sequence is captured, then future keys can be generated. Most systems have a (re-)synchronisation mode to cope with the use of more than one key; cloning kits can capitalise on this feature - Streaky