Driving no insurance

[ZOLLAR]

saaby93 said:

ZOLLAR said:

Also its not the insurer that won't backdate it they arn't allowed by law, if the insurer is at fault they can provide an indemnity to say they would have covered the PH if anything had happened but technically there would have still been no insurance.

Is that useful?
Should the insurer be able to provide that to the OP if pressed?
Can you give an explanation of 'technically'
If theyve taken no premium have they left him uncovered in the eyes of the law or not?

Regardless of whether the insurer gives an indemnity or not at the time the OP was pulled over there was no insurance in force.
Yes i suppose if op's insurer was at fault he perhpas may be able to get an indemnity however the courts may decide to ignore it.

[saaby93]

ZOLLAR said:

streaky said:

ZOLLAR said:

saaby93 said:

richardsheen said:

no they did not otherwise i would have not driven the car

Obvious isnt it. It wont help to know you're not the only one it's happened to.

If anyone can sell a back up RTA insurance - say £20-£30 a year- just in case your insurer pulls the plug and the only time you find out is at claim time or offence time.

Thats kind of pointless as people will just drive uninsured then when the "unthinkable" happens they'll just buy a backdate policy as a get out of jail free card.

The poster said "backup" as in reserve, not "backdate" - Streaky

Ok back up what? what would you need to backup?. any insurer can insurer you from immediate what i believe saaby was refering to was to take out a policy that covers you when you find out your own insurance wasn't inforce and you've had an accident or been pulled, that would be backdating cover.

No he wasnt

He was talking about taking out an extra policy and preferably through the RAC/AA/ABD or similar i.e. not your own insurer, so that if one day you find your own insurer hasnt done what it was supposed to (provide insurance) you at least have some back up technically and legally

[ZOLLAR]

saaby93 said:

ZOLLAR said:

streaky said:

ZOLLAR said:

saaby93 said:

richardsheen said:

no they did not otherwise i would have not driven the car

Obvious isnt it. It wont help to know you're not the only one it's happened to.

If anyone can sell a back up RTA insurance - say £20-£30 a year- just in case your insurer pulls the plug and the only time you find out is at claim time or offence time.

Thats kind of pointless as people will just drive uninsured then when the "unthinkable" happens they'll just buy a backdate policy as a get out of jail free card.

The poster said "backup" as in reserve, not "backdate" - Streaky

Ok back up what? what would you need to backup?. any insurer can insurer you from immediate what i believe saaby was refering to was to take out a policy that covers you when you find out your own insurance wasn't inforce and you've had an accident or been pulled, that would be backdating cover.

No he wasnt

He was talking about taking out an extra policy and preferably through the RAC/AA/ABD or similar i.e. not your own insurer, so that if one day you find your own insurer hasnt done what it was supposed to (provide insurance) you at least have some back up technically and legally

Ah i see what you mean, I apologise.
So really your refering to taking out a duplicate policy 2 policies for one car?.

[voyds9]

Another example of someone not wanting to be responsible for their own life.

No wonder it is considered to be a nanny state.

[SS2.]

saaby93 said:

He was talking about taking out an extra policy and preferably through the RAC/AA/ABD or similar i.e. not your own insurer, so that if one day you find your own insurer hasnt done what it was supposed to (provide insurance) you at least have some back up technically and legally..

Insuring against an insurer's cock up ?

Where do you stop ? Do you insure against cock ups by the insurer who insures against cock ups by your insurer ?

Madness.

Or why not simply take some responsibility and, at renewal time, contact the insurer directly to confirm continuation of cover.

[Jasandjules]

Soovy said:

6 points. Chunky fine.

Pretty much this. Those are the guidelines for a first offence.

[Noger]

"A policy of insurance shall be of no effect for the purposes of this Part of this Act unless and until there is delivered by the insurer to the person by whom the policy is effected a certificate (in this Part of this Act referred to as a “certificate of insurance”) in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the policy is issued and of any other matters as may be prescribed."

Forget letters, reminders, phones, direct debits and auto-renewals and all the other whinge-worthy stuff.

Do you, or do you not, have in your grubby mitts a nice piece of paper saying you can drive the vehicle.

How much more simple does it have to be ?

The insurer either sends you the cert or they don't.

If my insurance runs out TODAY, and TODAY I don't have the certificate that starts tomorrow, then I am going to worry. And call them.

[saaby93]

Noger said:

If my insurance runs out TODAY, and TODAY I don't have the certificate that starts tomorrow, then I am going to worry. And call them.

I know it soudns simple but in practice you phone up or whatever, take out insurance and the certificate comes through 14 days later.
Its only at that point that your know you are probably covered, or as in the OPs and other threads that instead you receive a letter saying youre not (when you thought you were) and a panic sets in - how did that happen?.

Even if you have what looks like a certificate, you may not be covered as the insurer may have not taken or refunded the premium.

What happened to the days of cover notes

[saaby93]

SS2. said:

saaby93 said:

He was talking about taking out an extra policy and preferably through the RAC/AA/ABD or similar i.e. not your own insurer, so that if one day you find your own insurer hasnt done what it was supposed to (provide insurance) you at least have some back up technically and legally..

Insuring against an insurer's cock up ?
Where do you stop ? Do you insure against cock ups by the insurer who insures against cock ups by your insurer ?
Madness.

I already realised that

[Noger]

saaby93 said:

Noger said:

If my insurance runs out TODAY, and TODAY I don't have the certificate that starts tomorrow, then I am going to worry. And call them.

I know it soudns simple but in practice you phone up or whatever, take out insurance and the certificate comes through 14 days later.
Its only at that point that your know you are probably covered, or as in the OPs and other threads that instead you receive a letter saying youre not (when you thought you were) and a panic sets in - how did that happen?.

Even if you have what looks like a certificate, you may not be covered as the insurer may have not taken or refunded the premium.

What happened to the days of cover notes

Read.The.Bloomin'.Law.

And it doesn't take 14 days, if you need it toot-sweet then they will fast post it.

To be insured you need the cert.

If you have a certificate then you *are* covered. The only way to not be is for the insurer to apply to the courts and get it cancelled. Not sending the cert back is an offence anyway.

[Magic919]

I understood the Cert was deemed delivered, for legal purposes, as soon as the Insurer pops it into the post.

[saaby93]

Noger said:

Not sending the cert back is an offence anyway.

This'll be the cert for the insurance that you didnt know had not been proceeded, so didn't know you had to send the cert back
so thats:-
failure to have insurance
and failure to send the certificate back

However having received the fines and points you can check your credit card or bank statement and (unless youre very unlucky) the premium will have come back all on its own too.

If it wasnt so serious when it happens (how many times is a claim involved too?) it would be keystone cops laughable


Anyway I know this came up a few months ago but now he's fallen into the trap what can be done to help the OP out?
He's being taken to court on the basis he had no insurance
The insurer didnt let him know it wasn't going to auto renew, but unless they can reinstate it he has no insurance
What does he do? ( and anyone else in the same trap?)

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 7th December 15:10

[Noger]

Magic919 said:

I understood the Cert was deemed delivered, for legal purposes, as soon as the Insurer pops it into the post.

For the purposes of the RTA, it is delivered, as in delivered. You can kinda get around it by using the "agent" bit - moot point now after the The Motor Vehicles (Electronic Communication of Certificates
of Insurance) Order 2010 though.

[Deva Link]

saaby93 said:

If you then ask them to renew it to including those 2 weeks they say tough you're on your own matey, we can't back date.

Yet bizzarely a very well known insurance company just did a new policy for my daughter - for last year!

I did the whole thing on the phone (she paid though) and I couldn't understand why it was cheaper than the online quote. Did on a Saturday, supposedly to start the following Tuesday. On Thursday she got a letter saying her insurance had expired 2 days earlier!

[Noger]

saaby93 said:

This'll be the cert for the insurance that you didnt know had not been proceeded, so didn't know you had to send the cert back
so thats:-
failure to have insurance
and failure to send the certificate back

You knew it hadn't been produced, because you haven't got it. Simple.

I want to pay for dinner tonight. I need my debit card. Check.
I want to go on holiday. I need my passport. Check.
I want to drive to work. I need insurance. Oh that is boring I will forget about checking.

[Deva Link]

Noger said:

"A policy of insurance shall be of no effect for the purposes of this Part of this Act unless and until there is delivered by the insurer to the person by whom the policy is effected a certificate (in this Part of this Act referred to as a “certificate of insurance”) in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the policy is issued and of any other matters as may be prescribed."

I often say that in these threads - I think very, very few people understand that strictly speaking you don't have insurance until you have the certificate in your hands.

As mentioned in my other post, my daughter's insurance company got the year wrong on her policy. They insisted they would have considered themselves to be held liable, and I have no doubt if there had been a serious incident then that would have been so. But would it have been easy to resolve a ping by ANPR for no insurance?

Edited by Deva Link on Tuesday 7th December 15:48

[saaby93]

Deva Link said:

They insisted they would have considered themselves to be held liable, and I have no doubt if there had been a serious incident then that would have been so. But would it have been easy to resolve a ping by ANPR for no insurance?

Interesting usually they wouldnt have been able to back date to cover those two days.
When they reinstated the insurance did they do it from the Tuesday or the Thursday?

[Deva Link]

saaby93 said:

Deva Link said:

They insisted they would have considered themselves to be held liable, and I have no doubt if there had been a serious incident then that would have been so. But would it have been easy to resolve a ping by ANPR for no insurance?

Interesting usually they wouldnt have been able to back date to cover those two days.
When they reinstated the insurance did they do it from the Tuesday or the Thursday?

Thursday. Daughter said they seemed mortified and they did agree to do it for the same (ie last year's) price so she was fairly happy. But a no insurance conviction could have been a significant issue in her job.

[saaby93]

Deva Link said:

Thursday. Daughter said they seemed mortified and they did agree to do it for the same price so she was fairly happy. But a no insurance conviction could have been a significant issue in her job.

She shouldnt have been happy at all. Those two days she was driving around without cover. Which is where we came in.

[Deva Link]

saaby93 said:

Deva Link said:

Thursday. Daughter said they seemed mortified and they did agree to do it for the same price so she was fairly happy. But a no insurance conviction could have been a significant issue in her job.

She shouldnt have been happy at all. Those two days she was driving around without cover. Which is where we came in.

Yep. And that's because it wasn't done in time to ensure that she had the new certificate in her hand on the day the policy started.